Broken top incisors U/D now growing back :)

I noticed that Lily was a little wet around the nostrils so had a closer look. Her top incisors looked at different angles so I touched them and they were both wobbly! She was very good and let me have a good look at them. The bottom ones are fine but the top ones are loose in the gums and pulled forward. She has been eating her pellets fine but the brocolli was untouched. It was in big pieces though so hard to eat with her teeth as they are. I'm not surprised as I'm sure its painful. I will get her to the vets asap although my good vets is only in on Tuesdays. I don't trust my local vets with anything smaller than a cat as they just don't have the experience. I have metacam so could give a little for the pain in the mean time. However, she was ok at letting me touch them but I would have thought they must be painful. She may have done this anytime over the last few days as I've been working 7am til 7pm so haven't seen her in anything other than the light of the torch for the last few days. She has continued eating and showed no other signs. I feel awful for not noticing if it happened earlier.

I don't know how she did it. There aren't any places she could jump from in her pen but the floor in concrete and the walls are brick. She also has glaucoma so I wonder if she was jumping around and banged into the wall?

Or perhaps she has an abscess? The gum looked healthy so nothing obvious. I couldn't get a look at her molars as I didn't want to risk pushed her incisors.

Any advice or experiences would be greatly appreciated. I've read of buns jumping and knocking their incisors but I'd feel better if I knew how she did it. In case there is an underlying problem.

one of my guinea pigs snapped off his front teeth chewing at the water bottle - something he does when waiting to be fed (it takes me a while to get round the room to his hutch) - I cut all his veg up tiny for him, and he managed to eat hay and his dry food OK - I was suprised to see they had grown back after just 2 or 3 weeks :shock: They grow continually so they will grow again, but watch the bottom ones might need clipping or whatever as they might overgrow without the top ones there to mesh with. Thankfully Derek's were fine.

Thanks Elve, I had a degu that I rehomed from someone who was feeding him such a poor diet that some of his teeth fell out and in an awful state. With careful trimming and an improved diet we eventually got them to grow the lovely orange colour degu teeth should be and they met in the middle properly. So I'm not to concerned about them not coming back, more concerned about an underlying problem. Also, I imagine they will fall out soon?

I just re-read your post and wondered whether Lily broke them on her water bottle as well. It may have been frozen last night, it wasn't this evening but I didn't get a chance to check this morning. She is in a proper stone built shed that is fairly well insulated so haven't seen frozen bottles before but it was very cold last night.

You say that they are wobbly, are they actually loose in the mouth? Are you able to move them back and forth with little pressure (dont push hard on them)?

If so you may actually be facing an incisoral removal or they may fall out naturally. A damaged root can be potentially serious.

The teeth are both loose, they don't feel attached to anything in the gum and they aren't straight like they should be but at angles. Obviously I didn't move them around too much so as not to hurt her but they are very loose. She let me touch them though, which I was surprised at. I'm at work at the moment but will be at home a little after 7pm so will see how she is then. I'm off work for the next four days so will be getting her to the vets soon.

As they are so loose I wouldn't be surprised if they fall out today. They seem to be just held in by the gums. The tooth colour is good so it doesn't appear to be that they have died at the roots. I certainly hope not. With any luck she was binkying around and with the glaucoma didn't see she was so close to the wall :shock:

I'm very conscious that the roots could be infected and how serious that can be. Hopefully I can move Warrens post op check up to tomorrow (from weds) and take them both together.

spider said:

The teeth are both loose, they don't feel attached to anything in the gum and they aren't straight like they should be but at angles. Obviously I didn't move them around too much so as not to hurt her but they are very loose. She let me touch them though, which I was surprised at. I'm at work at the moment but will be at home a little after 7pm so will see how she is then. I'm off work for the next four days so will be getting her to the vets soon.

As they are so loose I wouldn't be surprised if they fall out today. They seem to be just held in by the gums. The tooth colour is good so it doesn't appear to be that they have died at the roots. I certainly hope not. With any luck she was binkying around and with the glaucoma didn't see she was so close to the wall :shock:

I'm very conscious that the roots could be infected and how serious that can be. Hopefully I can move Warrens post op check up to tomorrow (from weds) and take them both together.

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Hi,

This happened to my rabbit when she got her incisors caught in a willow ball. She developed an abscess at the tooth root after having it removed and it was a nightmare from start to finish. I would get her on antibiotics just to be on the safe side.

Poor little Bunny I hope it's nothing too serious

Thanks for sharing your experience Charlie. I'm sorry you had such a terrible time with your girl That is what I fear with Lily. I'd be interested to hear what happened with your girl. Can you remember what antibiotics she was on, for how long and all the detail you can remember. I would greatly appreciate it please, even if the outcome wasn't good.

The vet said it was looking inflammed but didn't want to rush into removing them. Lily is now on a course of Marbocyl, 1ml once a day. I've got an appointment to take her back in a week and go from there. If no improvement she wants to remove them.

Does the Marbocyl dose sound right?

Just checking as I've not used these vets before and I'm still quite new to medicating rabbits. I wanted to get her seen asap and would have lad to wait until Friday to see my first choice vet. I may still contact him for advice though as he is very good with rabbit teeth.

spider said:

Thanks for sharing your experience Charlie. I'm sorry you had such a terrible time with your girl That is what I fear with Lily. I'd be interested to hear what happened with your girl. Can you remember what antibiotics she was on, for how long and all the detail you can remember. I would greatly appreciate it please, even if the outcome wasn't good.

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So sorry I just caught up with this post!!

Charlie's case was a little complicated and not helped by the fact that she had a rubbish vet. She was my first house rabbit, I didn't realise the importance of a good rabbit savvy vet and learned the hard way. (I saw four vets in one practice and they were ALL rubbish).

Charlie's accident happened on Boxing day last year. I found her with her incisors as you described your rabbits to have been, but there was also blood. I took her to the emergency vets who we had always used for our family dogs (I had just move back up North after uni and hadn't found a particular rabbit vet) and he pulled out one of her lower incisors whilst she was conscious. :shock: He gave her a pain killer and antibiotic shot but gave me NOTHING to take home. I was not clued up at all on rabbit medicine at that point. That night the abscess came up so I called the vet back who told me it would just be swelling caused by the initial trauma and to bring her back in a week. She ended up going in before then because she went into shock, wouldn't eat probably due to the pain and had diarrhea. He prescribed Baytril, critical care, probiotics and wanted to operate to remove the abscess the following day. He removed the abscess, left the other incisors in, closed up the wound and told me she would more than likely have to be put to sleep. I did a lot of research into abscesses and found that although prognosis was not good they could be managed. Within two days the abscess was back. I took her back again and saw a different vet who told me it wasn't an abscess, then asked to see a different vet who said it was and needed to be operated on again. I had two days to research different options and asked about antibiotic impregnated beads (they had never heard of them) and asked for the wound to be left open. I also asked the vet to remove the other incisors as that is what should have been best for charlie in the long run.

So.....Charlie came out of this op fine, but started to do very strange thing with her jaw i.e circular motions when not eating etc....I took her back a total of ten times 0ver next two weeks because although she was eating, being naughty etc I just knew something wasn't right....then she developed a massive bony lump on her jaw which the vet put down as calcified bone. They more or less laughed at me for repeatedly going back and made me feel like a fool. Then I found out about a really good rabbit vet who I took her to and she was appalled at the state she was in. After x-rays etc it turned out that the previous vet had fractured her jaw whilst removing the teeth or abscess and so the jaw had set incorrectly (the circular jaw motions were her way of showing discomfort) thus resulting in severe malocclusion and many tooth root impactions. I have to add that Charlie was never given pain relief from her previous vet and my vet was amazed that she had managed to get that far without succumbing to stasis etc...I'll always feel guilty for that. She was prescribed a life time of metacam, baytril to help prevent any infections and required dentals every five weeks. She never developed any further abscesses and managed perfectly without incisors, but unfortunately I lost her during GA for a dental. That morning she just wasn't quite herself and I knew in my heart I wasn't going to get her back that day. I tormented myself during the whole thing thinking was I doing the right thing keeping her alive, but she seemed very happy and we were extremely close (she was by my side practically 24/7) but I was grateful she took that decision out of my hands. I think she just couldn't take any more.

I have to point out that I know of lots of rabbits that have had their incisors removed without any problems whatsoever, Charlie just didn't have a good vet and wasn't given the treatments she needed.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that with Charlie. Thank you for taking the time to go through it all with me. I think its important to share experiences like that so we can all learn from them. I'm not sure whether to get Lily an appointment with my favourite vet for tomorrow. He only does surgeries on Tuesday and Wednesdays and is an hour and a half away. So its not easy when I'm working those days (although luckily with shift work i'm often off then - this week I am off Friday and next week too).

At least she is on an antibiotic but I wonder if she should have her teeth removed asap?

spider said:

I'm so sorry you had to go through that with Charlie. Thank you for taking the time to go through it all with me. I think its important to share experiences like that so we can all learn from them. I'm not sure whether to get Lily an appointment with my favourite vet for tomorrow. He only does surgeries on Tuesday and Wednesdays and is an hour and a half away. So its not easy when I'm working those days (although luckily with shift work i'm often off then - this week I am off Friday and next week too).

At least she is on an antibiotic but I wonder if she should have her teeth removed asap?

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Hi,
I felt guilty and upset for a long time after charlie passed, but if it hadn't been for her I would not have helped as many rabbits as I have to date and would not be as educated as I am on them.
Personally if Lily's incisors are loose I would have them removed sooner rather than later, definitely keep her on antibiotics as the tooth roots will be open to bacteria entering which can lead to an abscess. I would also have her back teeth checked and an x-ray done while she is under to establish no trauma to her jaw.

Thanks for the advice. My vet of choice Lance Jepson will be available to talk to tomorrow so I will call him to explain the situation and see what he suggests. He was fantastic with my degu who had pre molar spurs and with Lily's glaucoma. I have no doubt he'll know what to do. The vet Lily saw with her teeth was the one who did her spay so I know they are good with surgery of the routine nature but I'm not convinced by their experience with anything else. Although I have only just started using them. But they are mainly cat and dog vets.

Lily is still doing fine today. I've got her on my lap at the moment. She has just been charging around the house scaring the kitten! She is still eating well and behaving as normal. The gums don't look inflammed to me and she is still happy to let me touch the teeth. I just don't want there to be any further problems with the roots/jaw. I will see what Lance says tomorrow.

Just wanted to add some piccies I took a couple of days ago so you can see what I've been trying to describe:







And one of her looking lovely in the sun. Taken shortly after the pics above:

What a pretty bun!! Yes that is what Charlie's looked like. I wouldn't have them left in because they have no chance of ever wearing down themselves so she will need very regular dentals, also being so loose she won't be able to chew/eat veg. Mostly I think it must feel very uncomfortable and strange for her! I would also worry about when she does try to gnaw at something and cause further trauma.

Does she ever go into a wire pen or caged? Perhaps she has been pulling at something? Charlie damaged hers on a willow ball as her teeth were caught in-between some vines and she tried to pull herself free.

Aw thanks, she is pretty gorgeous. I can't believe she was unwanted. She's so lovely. I'm waiting for Vet Lance Jepson to call me back but he's got a busy day so there's no guarentee he'll get time. Although he knows Lily from seeing her with the glaucoma so I'm sure he will call unless he really can't.

I'm sure you are right and they do need removing, it makes sense, then its Lance that I'd want to do it. The last time I saw him with Lily's eyes we got chatting about rodent and rabbit teeth and he really knows his stuff.

I think I know how she did it. I went to check on her today and couldn't see her in her pen (2 sides stone shed, 1 side wood divide and 1 side cage panel). She was in with the guinea pigs next door! The sides of the pen are over two to three feet tall but some how she climbed them, then climbed into the guinea pig section. The divide between the two is smooth board and taller so she wouldn't have managed that. The cage panel on the piggie side is lower so she could have jumped that to get into them. The piggies have lots of hiding places so they were able to stay out of her way. Poor little men. They have met her before so hopefully they weren't too bothered. I don't know what I'm going to do to stop her though!

I imagine she fell whilst attempting this before :?

spider said:

Aw thanks, she is pretty gorgeous. I can't believe she was unwanted. She's so lovely. I'm waiting for Vet Lance Jepson to call me back but he's got a busy day so there's no guarentee he'll get time. Although he knows Lily from seeing her with the glaucoma so I'm sure he will call unless he really can't.

I'm sure you are right and they do need removing, it makes sense, then its Lance that I'd want to do it. The last time I saw him with Lily's eyes we got chatting about rodent and rabbit teeth and he really knows his stuff.

I think I know how she did it. I went to check on her today and couldn't see her in her pen (2 sides stone shed, 1 side wood divide and 1 side cage panel). She was in with the guinea pigs next door! The sides of the pen are over two to three feet tall but some how she climbed them, then climbed into the guinea pig section. The divide between the two is smooth board and taller so she wouldn't have managed that. The cage panel on the piggie side is lower so she could have jumped that to get into them. The piggies have lots of hiding places so they were able to stay out of her way. Poor little men. They have met her before so hopefully they weren't too bothered. I don't know what I'm going to do to stop her though!

I imagine she fell whilst attempting this before :?

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What a cheeky bunny!!!! I guess she likes their company or she's trying to claim their space. I have a bunny who is perfectly capable of clearing heights of five foot and has done so on many occassions.....I even caught her trying to scale an eight foot wall!! I guess they really aren't good at judging heights. For some reason I found that if I have a partion consisting of a wooden frame and mesh she won't attempt to jump it (although I see her eyeing it up) but if it's a solid partition she is straight over! Guess she just can't resist seeing what's on the other side. I can't have her in a pen with no lid. :shock:

Tell me about it! She is a cheeky girl. Her future husbun is getting cheeky too. He was very scared when we first got him but he's started coming to up me and pushing my hand really hard. Lily does this softly but Warren pushes with all his strength. He seems to just want attention. If you pass him his ball he pushes it back to you with his feet.

I spoke to the vet at the further away practice and he said he would have given antibiotics and waiting for the teeth to come out. I trust him completely and know he's had a lot of experience with rabbit teeth. He said if they start to cause he discomfort or bleeding to reassess the situation. If anything the gums are looking better as they did go a little red for a couple of days. So hopefully the anitbiotic is keeping any infection at bay. Trouble is rabbit teeth are so long I don't know long long it will be before they come out. Also, the bottom teeth will get too long before long. We have an appointment with the original vet on Wednesday so I guess she will reassess then.

Lily went back to the vets today and they are going to remove the broken teeth tomorrow. They will also trim the bottom incisors and they have been over growing and check her molars to make sure they're not getting spurs. I nearly fell over when she told me she can't be certain but that it may cost as much as £120!!! Although this was just an estimate and she thinks it will probably be less than £100. I must have gone a funny colour because the next think I know she is looking at me all concerned and telling me she won't charge me for the check up today :lol:

It certainly seems a lot to me. She broke it down to £28 for anaesthetic, £33 for the dental and £50ish for meds! She confirmed the first two figures wouldn't change but the meds would probably be a lot less. Then there is vat on top. I was just a little surprised as her spay was only £54 by the same vet. Although I'm just pleased that it is getting done tomorrow so we can start getting her teeth back to normal. That is assuming the roots aren't damaged. Other wise it'll be another dental to have the bottom ones removed too. I'm not going to tell the OH how much it is

I'd get her insured but I don't suppose insurance will cover for an existing problem will it :lol: