Breeding animals

[buddabun]

first of all i really dont want this to turn into one of 'those' threads. I am just curious.

I was wondering why people decide to breed animals... I know one lady who breeds buns (I got Brian from her (free)) and she does it to put them in shows etc. She doesnt seem to think of them as pets like I do (but that's probably because she has so many).

I guess I was just curious as to why people decide to breed. Is it for show? Because you like baby animals? for pets? to sell?

THe "breeding children" thread earlier had me thinking about this as I havea strong maternal instinct and fully plan to have my own children one day... the parallels between that and breeding animals struck me... If I ever had any more animals I would get them from rescues yet I havent even thought about 'rescuing' a child..

funny eh?

[Indiechic]

My dad used to breed guinea pigs when i was little, he only did it for a while... two litters - then he decided he would just enjoy his animals... and bought me some rabbits lol.

x

[amber26]

I have got birds which are in pairs i let them have a clutch or maxium two a year most of the babies i keep myself or i rehome to ff3 members which is a forum i go on too

Mine are not breeding machine's if you come to mine you will see most of all they are flying free except when my cats in i even got a blind parrotlet he will never breed and it does bother me i love my birds

Here's pictures
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Picture396.jpgthis ids dobber he is a kakariki he is my baby every day i am mobbed by him

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Picture269.jpgthis is bella and her mum rosie bella lives with my friend angela

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Picture412-1.jpgthis is rosie and tilly two cinnamon hens mine

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Photo-0346.jpgthis is pops he is my poppets friend

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1243.jpgskye a pit bull but sweet

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1577.jpgpoppet and skye up to mischeif

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1584.jpgand bathing

[Jack's-Jane]

Well I can see the appeal of breeding animals (:shock:)
It must be lovely to see life from its conception ( although I'd avert my gaze at that bit :oops: :lol:)
I guess there are a multitude of reasons why animals are bred. For meat, for fur, for leather, for milk, for showing, for money, to have off-spring from much loved Pets.

I would *never* breed from a Pet animal but I am not blind to the reasons why people may want to.

Janex

[Ben's mum]

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons people decide to breed - for 'fun', for the experience, to have 'copies' of their precious pets, to make money, etc.
The only valid reason I see for breeding is to better the species, so that in the future we'll have healthier, more friendly pets - responsible breeders also help educate people on correct animal care so hopefully it will lead to a generation of more sensible animal owners too!

[Cob-Web]

Even the most stringent animal rescue home check doesn't come close to the assessments and requirements for child adoption; I find it hard to understand the parallels tbh :?

There are a lot of "bad" reasons for breeding animals imo - and vets do still perpetuate the myths......for instance, my neighbour allowed her cat to have a litter "because the vet said it made them more home loving" :roll: She is now letting her have another pregnacy before having her spayed because "so many of her friends want a kitten and they can't afford to rescue". She seems to have forgotten the stress she went through when the first kittens was born, on her sons bed, when she came running round to me in a panic because one of the kits wasn't breathing (it survived, though :))

In terms of dog breeding - the only reason for breeding imo is to ensure that none of the breeds are lost; but I believe only the very best examples of each breed should be bred; not random back yard matings between two dogs that happen to be available, or commercial breeding for profit with no consideration for the health or temperament of the puppies :?

[buddabun]

oh amber your birds are beautiful.

I LOVE birds and whenever i go into petshops and see them in those tiny cages they make me so sad. it's one of the only things that will make me actually cry ina pet shop. yours seem so happy (and free range!!!)

i especially love the photo of dobber :love:

having seen my baby rats from day 1 (ok we're only on day 4 but still :)) I can see the appeal of cute baby animals but I doubt that's why people do it.

I remember that american girl a couple of weeks back who got everyone so wound up said she bred rabbits because she loved baby rabbits - I take it this isnt the attitude of most breeders? I mean, don't get me wrong, I LOVE baby rabbits, whenevr I go into a petshop it is a big force of will not to steal all the babies but I'm not sure that I see that as a valid 'reason' for breeding - jsut because you like cute baby animals. That's like having loads of children because you like babies... :?

well not quite the same obviously...

[amber26]

I don't breed cos i like it its a miracle i admit but have you ever tried to stop a bird Rosie is the worst she is dobber's mate i have got plastic eggs what i put under them when i do not want clutches but they can still go through the natural process however the little [pain layed in the quail house i have got four she produced poppet who you saw with skye the pit bull (she is a parrotlet)

Anyway i try to do the best for my birds they live in the shed some do in large aviarys toys natural perches fruit veg good quality food they also have got electric in there

And baby birds are very very very ugly when born so it ain't the arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr factor

[buddabun]

And baby birds are very very very ugly when born so it ain't the arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr factor


i think that's the same for most animals...

they go through that ugly pink phase and then get cute and fluffy....

[amber26]

i think that's the same for most animals...

they go through that ugly pink phase and then get cute and fluffy....

They look ugly for weeks and sound like dinosaurs growling at you not pretty i assure you :lol:

[buddabun]

lol


FUNNY COS BABY RATS SOUND MORE LIKE BIRDS - CHEEPING AWAY lol

[amber26]

lol


FUNNY COS BABY RATS SOUND MORE LIKE BIRDS - CHEEPING AWAY lol

I have never seen a baby rat do they make a lot of noise /

[buddabun]

seems to be when they're suckling or when you hold them. must be a reflex to get milk...
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g155/helenrees/Twixday2eyes.jpg

here is a photo (I ahve a thread going somewhere in general chat with updates and photos)

ooh and im sorry i didnt mean to shout lol

[amber26]

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Photo-0307.jpg3 baby cockatiels at 3 days old ugly :lol:

[amber26]

They are beautiful:D
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1268.jpg 3 weeks

[buddabun]

They are beautiful:D
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1268.jpg 3 weeks

LOL aww theyre so funny looking!! :love:

i think ugly animals are cute if you get me, theyre SO ugly theyre cute...

like those hariless wrinkly dogs...

funny.

[Snowy]

They are beautiful:D
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1268.jpg 3 weeks

Is that CeDe you are feeding them?

[amber26]

nope these are parent reared mummy's hard work this

[Gingypig]

See that is why baby guinea pigs are SOOOOO cute!! from the minute they are born they have hair, eyes and ears open, are running arounf with mum within hours...
baby pig, hours old
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/ronreg/DSC02010.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/ronreg/DSC02736.jpg

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/ronreg/DSC01366.jpg

I breed guinea pigs, and I do it because I love them and love to see their babies, i try to breed good quality healthy happy pigs and I do my very very best to find them good homes. If i can't find them a good home then here with me they stay.

I have just had a litter of baby rabbits and again it was for the experience and they will not go anywhere that i do not know, I do not want them endind up as unwanted pets nor do i want them making the rescues job any harder.

I agree with both sides and i personally think people should have a licence to breed any animal but i also think people should have a licence to own animals and have children!!!! xxx

[ZakuraRabbit]

I breed for show, pets, active and sable-colored rabbits:lol:
With all the animals around I do believe strongly only healthy good-natured animals should be used in breeding, and mixbreds shouldn't be bred unless there's a really good reason. (People in Norway breed rexes to dwarves to get minirexes etc.) And no, just getting cute little babies is not a good reason in my opinion, it's about the worst reason possible, as people tend to just breed the first two animals they find as long as they are the same species and opposite sex.:cry: Or as in cats...let un-neutered cats roam free. :evil: No wonder the rescues around there drown in them. :cry:
If anyone's going to breed, at least make sure you have a goal with the litter, and not just because your friends want the same animal as you do, since pretty much if you can't pay for a rescue how are you going to pay for caring for the pet afterwards?

[Deelove]

When I was a kiddywink My Mum and I bred a few guinea pigs. I have no idea why. Other than wanting to experience new life, help it to grow and be healthy etc. For the experience and the fascination I guess. I still got updates from one lady who I rehomed my last guinea pig to, the little piggy passed away last year.

Now I understand that you can get the same benifits and experience from gaining an adult animal's trust. I was very close to my breeding girl, I was heart broken when she died. My Mum used to give into me a lot when I was young. :lol:

Actually I think the thing that got me thinking about breeding was that in a lot of care books from even 5 years ago talk about breeding as though it is the thing to do. Giving you guides on how to etc. So I and my mum didn't even think for one minute there was something wrong with it.

[elve]

I have just had a litter of baby rabbits and again it was for the experience xxx

What happened to 'truly it was an accident'? :roll:

My mum bred golden retreivers and burmese cats - we loved them, she made lots of money. Am I tempted to breed animals as a result? No because I disagree with using animals as a hobby or to make money.

[Gingypig]

[QUOTE=elve;2281927]What happened to 'truly it was an accident'? :roll:QUOTE]

Well it was, I had thought long and hard about breeding Boo and had decided AGAINST and if i had it would have been for the experience but them the accident happened 2 days before the boys went to get neutered, but whatever the reasons she had the babies I'm glad they are here now and a happy life they will have just like all animals i have anything to do with.

[SarahP]

I've never really understood why people want to breed (seems a lot of stress and worry, apart from anything else!) I know some very bad guinea pig breeders and some good ones, and the good ones seem to do it to further healthy lines, whereas the bad ones seem to do it to 'see what comes out'. That's a hopeless generalisation, but I guess what I'm trying to do is see the complexity of it, and that it probably isn't for one reason.

[donnamt]

stella almost died when she got pregnant :cry: the only baby got stuck and she had to go to the vets to get it out.... this was about a year ago, anytime she does the mating chirp now i will seperate them cus the vet said if its happened once its very possible it will happen again... id have loved to seen the babies they produced... fate decided against it and thankfully stella didnt suffer for too long after (she got quite mean all them hormones and no babies :cry:)

[elve]

Forgot to mention too, when I rescued the guinea pigs off that breeder, 2 were pregnant, and yes the babies were the sweetest things I'd ever seen - but I could never part with them as I'd worry for 10yrs about what had become of them.

Obviously I can't keep more than about 25 animals, and they do live a long time so I hope. I'd soon be overrun if I carried on breeding them just so I could play with the babies for a couple of months, so I prefer to find other hobbies that are creative - there's plenty to choose from after all.

I feel I have a duty of care to my animals, for the whole of their life, not just the beginning of it - and quite honestly that's more responsibility than I'm happy with - I wouldn't willingly create more or I'd never sleep at night.

[blueboy]

I think it’s very important that animals breed or else they would die out. But I do think it’s important that its done by someone who is both passionate and trained. I think its more important that animals breed then humans, because animals don’t live as long in many cases.

[Gingypig]

I personally think that if you worry that much about all these things then you must not be able to sleep at night as this world is a pretty horrid place and I'm just rying to have a nice time in it while i'm here. If having a few baby animals makes me happy and makes my lilfe a bit more enjoyable then so be it, i spend a lot of time working in a job that i don't really like to be able to get on in this world and be able to give myself and my animals a good life. I think that people on this and other forums are the wrong people to be preaching too, you might as well go and do it somewhere that it might influence people. I spend a lot of my time trying to educate my friends, family, collegues and total strangers how and why they should provide good care for their animals and hopefully this does make a difference for some animals.

[elve]

I personally think that if you worry that much about all these things then you must not be able to sleep at night as this world is a pretty horrid place and I'm just rying to have a nice time in it while i'm here. If having a few baby animals makes me happy and makes my lilfe a bit more enjoyable then so be it, i spend a lot of time working in a job that i don't really like to be able to get on in this world and be able to give myself and my animals a good life. I think that people on this and other forums are the wrong people to be preaching too, you might as well go and do it somewhere that it might influence people. I spend a lot of my time trying to educate my friends, family, collegues and total strangers how and why they should provide good care for their animals and hopefully this does make a difference for some animals.

And likewise I live in hope that my 'preaching' might get through to someone too - no harm in trying :)

[Lspacehopper]

I have got birds which are in pairs i let them have a clutch or maxium two a year most of the babies i keep myself or i rehome to ff3 members which is a forum i go on too

Mine are not breeding machine's if you come to mine you will see most of all they are flying free except when my cats in i even got a blind parrotlet he will never breed and it does bother me i love my birds

Here's pictures
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Picture396.jpgthis ids dobber he is a kakariki he is my baby every day i am mobbed by him

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Picture269.jpgthis is bella and her mum rosie bella lives with my friend angela

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Picture412-1.jpgthis is rosie and tilly two cinnamon hens mine

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/Photo-0346.jpgthis is pops he is my poppets friend

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1243.jpgskye a pit bull but sweet

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1577.jpgpoppet and skye up to mischeif

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k85/amber26_03/100_1584.jpgand bathing


Is the little turquoise one a Linnie (Lineolated Parakeet)? I have 3 that I rescued. Was 4 but lost one to respiratory problems.

[AgoutiLover]

i think that's the same for most animals...

they go through that ugly pink phase and then get cute and fluffy....

First off... I would like to apologize for causing so much disharmony for the last couple of days :oops:. I would have apologized earlier but I had gotten temporariiy muted :roll:. Se for ugly baby bunny's

How could you resist this (and no I done not take pictures of the babys I got this off the web).
http://www.thenaturetrail.com/photogallery/Litters/Rosies2Kaseys3kits020204.jpg
And five days old...awwww:)
http://www.geocities.com/hoppinherdofhares2003/chestnuttop5dayold2.jpg
and 12 weeks old
http://www.lrca.net/blazeday31.jpg
A year:lol:

[amber26]

No she is a celestial parrotlet :D i love linnies

[FriskyClover]

Actually I think the thing that got me thinking about breeding was that in a lot of care books from even 5 years ago talk about breeding as though it is the thing to do. Giving you guides on how to etc. So I and my mum didn't even think for one minute there was something wrong with it.

I agree with you there, most pet guides that I have (aside from the rescue type ones) have guides on how to breed.

Personally, I wouldn't breed because there are already so many unwanted pets out there, without me adding to them. Also, I can't see that there is any real financial gain in it. That said, I can understand that some people do it because they love seeing baby animals or want to produce well-bred animals.

I think what really annoyed me recently was that I was at an agricultural college and one of their does had just had babies. They obviously let her breed so that their students could see the process which I think is a pretty rubbish reason and I worry about what will become of those baby bunnies.

[Lucy]

I don't consider all breeding wrong, only bad or careless breeding. If it's done properly where the is lineage checked, you do all appropriate health tests and you know there is a need for it, then fine. And obviously if the animals are rehomed sensibly. For example, I would not breed any staffies, there are staffies in rescues in stupid numbers. A breed like a pug or standard poodle, in which I particular interest, I see that as fine, as they are not bred in abundance.

I agree that the only time they should be bred is to better the breed. I have a standard poodle ***** here I could have bred from if I was a money grabber. To me she is not show standard therefore not suitable for breeding from. I get very mad when people bred from pets which are below breed standard just because they think they are cute or sweet. If you cannot better a breed or add a good line to it, you should leave it alone.

That makes me sound like a dog snob :lol: I guess I am really when it comes to breeding. I feel every dog is equal, except when it comes to breeding :lol:. Why anyone would feel the need to breed from crosses and mongrels, or bad examples of a breed I will never ever understand. Even before I did rescue I knew the problems caused by people doing this.

I have no ideas why people would want to breed rabbits or small animals. The only reason i could ever imagine doing it would be to keep a specialist breed going or something like that. I would be far too worried when rehoming babies that were not neutered that they may have an accident on purpose or something:roll:

[buddabun]

i certainly wasnt coming on here to preach, gingypig!!

I was just curious. I know there is a lot of controversy on here about breeding and instead of just joining in i wanted to find out from breeders why they decided to breed. it was not intended as a "how could you breed" or anything like that, I am merely trying to understand the mentality behind it, as I dont think I would breed myself. Apart from having no reason to, I think I wouldn't want to add to rescues' load.

SOrry if you got the wrong impression but I genuinely was jsut wanting a friendly discussion on the topic...

[rspcarabbits]

Its nice to hear of some of the positive sides to breeding and on this thread, its very much what you expect to hear when you ask this question in this way.

mmmmm ......and after the other night everyone's replys appear quite nicely nicely.

However you would expect us to hold some pretty strong views when it comes to how rabbits come to be with us and why people breed, which we do . After all ,we like loads of others who use this site have to deal with the resulting problems.

But to keep to thread I put forward the following reasons why some people breed.

1)Pure greed and money(mostly tax free) and to hell with the animals.

2)Because some people are too stupid not to even though most have heard the phrase "breeds like rabbits"

3)Because a lot of people think "Thats no problem I will soon be able to rehome a few babies" .In one case two teachers came to us with no idea the female could get pregnant on the same day she gave birth. Their misconception resulted in 18 rabbits from 2 in just over 30days!.Our own housebun Jess was one of 17!- is that a record?

Please nobody take any of this personally, its not ment to be but you cannot have a thread like this without stating some of the obvious.Our opinions I accept are jaded in certain area's but you can't help it when you have spoken to as many idiots about rabbits as we have over the last 10yrs:lol:or is it:(

[ZakuraRabbit]

t really annoyed me recently was that I was at an agricultural college and one of their does had just had babies. They obviously let her breed so that their students could see the process which I think is a pretty rubbish reason and I worry about what will become of those baby bunnies.

My school does that:? The babies are often sent to a pet shop, luckily they don't breed more than they can handle, if there's a lot of animals at school that can't get new homes for one reason or another, they're not bred until there's room for the new babies. The rex-rabbits are bred for show, the lops mostly pets, we've shown a couple sometimes, but most don't do very well as their parents most likely weren't bred for show at all, therefore they are either too big or uneven markings. Right now however we might have 3 pregnant angoras, and I'm not sure what my teacher plan to do about that:? I hope they're not sent to a pet shop, and I have warned my teacher against it too, since angoras need a lot of special care and shouldn't be given to just anyone, they're also quite a bit larger than the ones normally seen in pet shops around here.:cry: (Most only take in dwarf rabbits, and our rexes occasionally..)
The budgies breed wildly, there's no stopping them:? We have tried sealing of their nest boxes, but they keep tearing it of. :roll:
Maybe I should suggest the fake eggs... they're much different from the cockatiels who keep destroying their own eggs, and the only chicks we ever had died within a few says:shock:

[Lspacehopper]

No she is a celestial parrotlet :D i love linnies

Wow.....looks quite similar to a Linnie....she's very pretty :)

[Crystal butterfly]

i dont have a problem with breeding what so ever if its for show purposes, to better the breed etc. theres a breeder near me who breeds not only pet rabbits but also pet guinea pigs, cavaliers and cats (he just lets his cats go out and get pregnant by anyone :roll:) this is breeding i dont agree with.

[admin edit]

although i like to keep a level head and see both sides to breeding and rescueing im nor for nor against unless its a bad rescue/breeder but i do feel all rabbits breeding and non breeding animals should be treat with respect and shown love they only get 1 life like us and we as people could be destroying that 1 life for them :cry:

[Beebop]

I think it’s very important that animals breed or else they would die out. But I do think it’s important that its done by someone who is both passionate and trained. I think its more important that animals breed then humans, because animals don’t live as long in many cases.


Does it really matter though if a pet breed dies out for they have no function outside of being a 'pet'. I get seriously annoyed some people put more effort into saving some rare breed of dog than tigers or other endangered species


I can't understand why people would want to breed if they are fully aware of the situation of rescues. I've been around my local shelters, heard the tales of woe at the USPCA and have witnessed the overpopulation problems on here. Before I came on here I didn't mind breeding animals so long as it was to improve the breed, but now I am strongly against it. I just don't see the point in having pets when so many people neglect them, its not fair on the animals.

Actually before I joined here, I was considering breeding hamsters, and Bailey and Bronwyn were to be parents. They were from good show stock but within a few months of being on here, I decided against it. Thats why I am so quick to get wound up at other breeders on here because I was in their position but changed to the opposite after realising the problems, and I guess I just can't understand why others don't do the same. :(

[AgoutiLover]

i certainly wasnt coming on here to preach, gingypig!!

I was just curious. I know there is a lot of controversy on here about breeding and instead of just joining in i wanted to find out from breeders why they decided to breed. it was not intended as a "how could you breed" or anything like that, I am merely trying to understand the mentality behind it, as I dont think I would breed myself. Apart from having no reason to, I think I wouldn't want to add to rescues' load.

SOrry if you got the wrong impression but I genuinely was jsut wanting a friendly discussion on the topic...

Thank You!

You know, that question is one of the hardest questions to answer... for breeders... What most people don't understand is that there is no money in this game (unless its a commercial breeder and even some breeders think commercial breeders are cruel) it all goes to cages, food, the odd vet bill (I use that money in times on trouble like when rabbit breaks its leg)and gas (mostly gas):lol:!

But as for you question...there is something truly magical about breeding two rabbits you love, and exactly 31 days later, out pops the cutest things in the world... When you take you first look at the littler even if its your hundredth time breeding... its just like the first time... you get soooo worried "did the kits last through the night or did the mom hurt them in any way (not intentionally) and when you look down on those babies all your worries drift away...Then when you show the greater feeling comes... its when you babies the ones you held in your hands when they were only an hour old, grow up and win! I think many of you have kids... and you say you treat you rabbits like them (if not better:lol:) likewise its like your kid going up and winning a big prize!

That is what most breeders breed for, the high of breeding and the kits living and the high of seeing them win at a show.

Oh dear I think I got soft over the holiday :lol:!

AL (by the way who came up with AL I kinda like it :lol:)

[Deelove]

I think what really annoyed me recently was that I was at an agricultural college and one of their does had just had babies. They obviously let her breed so that their students could see the process which I think is a pretty rubbish reason and I worry about what will become of those baby bunnies.

My old secondary school used to have a small 'farm' They bred rabbits and guineapigs. (and goats) That's how I ended up with my first rabbits, as my Mum worked at the school.

[ZakuraRabbit]

I do believe people do put more effort into saving tigers, but how many people could take a wild tiger into their home just to breed it? It'd be insanity!
Breeding wild animals should only be done by the ones who are experienced with these kinds of animals, surely its the same with domestic breeds, but it's quite a lot harder breeding wildlife like tigers or even wolves, compared to breeding dogs, when it comes to releasing them back into the wild (often if raised by inexperienced people they end up too tame) :cry:

Rescue situation is exactly why I believe all outdoor cats should be neutered, as otherwise they will breed wildly...too bad some people are too stupid to realize this so the shelters are overflowing:evil: Apart from that all I see in my local rescue are the occasional rabbit, and a few weeks ago a cockatiel. :cry:
But I am aware that there is a lot of bad breeding going on with the smaller animals. Rodents are often not separated in time at pet stores so they become pregnant far too son:evil:

I'd say: no to animals in pet shops, yes to license to breed and neutering of all pets unless they are specifically picked out for breeding later :D Too bad neutering of dogs is illegal in Norway unless you have a specific medical reason:?

[buddabun]

Its nice to hear of some of the positive sides to breeding and on this thread, its very much what you expect to hear when you ask this question in this way.

mmmmm ......and after the other night everyone's replys appear quite nicely nicely.

However you would expect us to hold some pretty strong views when it comes to how rabbits come to be with us and why people breed, which we do . After all ,we like loads of others who use this site have to deal with the resulting problems.

But to keep to thread I put forward the following reasons why some people breed.

1)Pure greed and money(mostly tax free) and to hell with the animals.

2)Because some people are too stupid not to even though most have heard the phrase "breeds like rabbits"

3)Because a lot of people think "Thats no problem I will soon be able to rehome a few babies" .In one case two teachers came to us with no idea the female could get pregnant on the same day she gave birth. Their misconception resulted in 18 rabbits from 2 in just over 30days!.Our own housebun Jess was one of 17!- is that a record?

Please nobody take any of this personally, its not ment to be but you cannot have a thread like this without stating some of the obvious.Our opinions I accept are jaded in certain area's but you can't help it when you have spoken to as many idiots about rabbits as we have over the last 10yrs:lol:or is it:(

dont get me wrong. i'm with you on this one.

iu hadn't thought about it one way or the other before I came on here but once i realised how many animals are out there waiting for homes it certainly made me 'against' it.

i wont buy animals from pet shops again and will certainly go to a rescue if i ever want another pet..

but i was jsut curious as to the bredders' viewpoint as they always get stamped down so quickly on here. Understandably but we all have a right to speak and I was curious.

It's certainly interesting to hear people's viewpoints.

Just to stir the pot a bit - how do you breeders out there justify bringing more buns (or other animals) into the world when there are so many without homes? I'm not being accusative (although I admit it does sound that way when you read back through it), again, just interested

[SarahP]

I can certainly understand the views that some of the rescues have about breeding. But my view (as a non-breeder who doesn't run a rescue), is that they are seeing the very worst side of it. ie the results of ignorance and poor choices, or breeders that just let nature take its course and get out of control. Decent breeders have good homes planned for all animals that they breed so, in theory, a rescue should never see the results of that breeding.

By the way, I think this monitored thread is great. Thanks to those mods who are taking the time to monitor it. :)

[buddabun]

ditto. it's nice to have a frank discussion about a 'hot topic' (love that phrase :lol:) without is descending into a slanging match.

cheers mods :wave:

[Ben's mum]

Just to stir the pot a bit - how do you breeders out there justify bringing more buns (or other animals) into the world when there are so many without homes? I'm not being accusative (although I admit it does sound that way when you read back through it), again, just interested

From my experience with breeders, you get people who specifically want animals from a breeder and wouldn't go to a rescue anyway, so it's not like the breeder is 'stealing' a home. These can be genuine reasons - they need a young animal as companion for another but rescues had nothing young enough, they need a certain gender or breed and rescues didn't have them, they needed something handlable for a young child and the rescues only had nervous ones that weren't quite suitable, etc.
Reputable breeders rarely contribute to the number of animals needing homes themselves as they'll take back any animal they've bred (and often take in rescues too)
Like I've said, breeding (responsibly) is also done for the longterm benefits. There may be more than enough in rescues now but if breeders stopped until there were fewer rescue animals (which may be never if BYBs, petshops, etc still continued breeding/selling), they'd lose all their current breeding lines or they'd grow too old to breed from, so if/when people wanted pets in the future, breeders would have to start afresh with new lines, from rescue/petshop lines, and this would mean lots of sickly animals to start with until the genetic problems were bred out of the lines again

[Beebop]

I do believe people do put more effort into saving tigers, but how many people could take a wild tiger into their home just to breed it? It'd be insanity!
Breeding wild animals should only be done by the ones who are experienced with these kinds of animals, surely its the same with domestic breeds, but it's quite a lot harder breeding wildlife like tigers or even wolves, compared to breeding dogs, when it comes to releasing them back into the wild (often if raised by inexperienced people they end up too tame) :cry:



I never said about bringing wild animals into peoples homes, heck I don't believe in zoos let alone people having breeding tigers in their back yard! My point was I think its sad that some people seem more worried about preserving the Dandi dinmont or bloodhound than true endangered animals who have an important role to play in the wild. Pets if anything, only bring more problems for wild animals to deal with, ie cats killing wild birds. ;)

Out of interest, what is the benefit of having a license to breed? I mean if its anything like the Kennel club, it won't root out the bad breeders, stop poorly bred animals from being bred, nor will it ever be possible to effectively police it, backyard breeding will be around for as long as we have pets.

[FriskyClover]

From my experience with breeders, you get people who specifically want animals from a breeder and wouldn't go to a rescue anyway, so it's not like the breeder is 'stealing' a home.

I agree with you on that one. I tried to encourage a friend of mine to get a pair of rabbits from a rescue, however, she said that she had seen some rescue bunnies that were really ugly and she preferred to have rabbits that were properly bred. In the end she didn't get any rabbits (thankfully) but she wasn't willing to entertain going to a rescue.

[Fifibutton]

The first two rabbits I ever got were sisters from a rescue and the were both pregnant by the same male! I got the male home too but they all live aprt from each other until they were neutered. Anyway, on sister had 2 stillborn kits and the other had 5 live ones but one of them died after a month. We were not told that they were preganant so it was a huge shock but we kept all the babies and someof them plus the parents are still with us today. I'm very against it as there are just too many homeless bunnies already and they are just as cute as adults. I can see why people breed and its thanks to them we have such a vareity in shap and colour but I do believe limits need to be imposed to protect breeding mothers, future kits and the already existing mass of orphaned bunnies.

[blueboy]

From my experience with breeders, you get people who specifically want animals from a breeder and wouldn't go to a rescue anyway, so it's not like the breeder is 'stealing' a home. These can be genuine reasons - they need a young animal as companion for another but rescues had nothing young enough, they need a certain gender or breed and rescues didn't have them, they needed something handlable for a young child and the rescues only had nervous ones that weren't quite suitable, etc.
Reputable breeders rarely contribute to the number of animals needing homes themselves as they'll take back any animal they've bred (and often take in rescues too)
Like I've said, breeding (responsibly) is also done for the longterm benefits. There may be more than enough in rescues now but if breeders stopped until there were fewer rescue animals (which may be never if BYBs, petshops, etc still continued breeding/selling), they'd lose all their current breeding lines or they'd grow too old to breed from, so if/when people wanted pets in the future, breeders would have to start afresh with new lines, from rescue/petshop lines, and this would mean lots of sickly animals to start with until the genetic problems were bred out of the lines again


I agree. If there where no breeders and only rescues (that would never happen as it couldn’t unless rescues started breeding them) there would be a lot lower quality rabbits out there. Breeders breed for quality and rescues are helping find homes for homeless rabbits, normally from backyard breeders. Rescuing a rabbit isn’t for everyone just as buying a rabbit from a breeder isn’t for everyone.

[rspcarabbits]

I've heard the phrase "reputable breeder" used alot so how about some quantification of it.Just so we know what we are talking about.

In anything other than accidental breeding, what percentage of reputable breeders are there out there. You know those who do it properly, choose very carefully the pairings to improve the line, always have homes for offspring to go to, always prepared to take them back, maybe even vaccinate, maaaaay-be even neuter.

So being cynical and jaded and the product of what we do I will start the bidding at 10%.

Higher or Lower?

[Ben's mum]

Well, I've been "told off" (not quite but can't think of another way to phrase it!) for comparing potential good rabbit breeders (as I don't really associate with any rabbit breeders - mostly because there's not many on RU or if they are they're not very open about it!) to the good rat breeders I know but I can't see why there would be a huge difference (I know fancies can vary in their attitude towards breeding etc but if you can with a certain attitude towards one animal I don't see why there couldn't be similar people within another species' fancy)
The rat forum I use has an ethical stance which is publicised on their website and encouraged on the forum. The forum is pro-rescue too and actually doesn't allow breeders to advertise on there, but doesn't shun them either, which I think works very well as it leaves a slight bias towards the needy rats in rescues but promotes responsible breeding and encourages people to research into good breeders (as by not allowing advertising, they're not endorsing a particular breeder or anything)
http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/information/guides.php?subject=breedercode

[Jack's-Jane]

I've heard the phrase "reputable breeder" used alot so how about some quantification of it.Just so we know what we are talking about.

In anything other than accidental breeding, what percentage of reputable breeders are there out there. You know those who do it properly, choose very carefully the pairings to improve the line, always have homes for offspring to go to, always prepared to take them back, maybe even vaccinate, maaaaay-be even neuter.

So being cynical and jaded and the product of what we do I will start the bidding at 10%.

Higher or Lower?

I'd say lower but I am a cynique too :rolleyes:

I have heard a couple of Breeders on hear say that they only breed to improve the line and they only have 1 or 2 litters a year. They 'vet' anyone wanting to buy a Rabbit from them and they *appear*, from what they say on here, to give out good information. They also claim they would take back any Rabbit sold to someone who was unable to keep him/her.

What I cant understand is why some Breeders *of any Pet* would not only breed their 'speciality' but also breed to sell to Pet Shops etc :?
I can *sort of* understand how it may be rewarding to see a breed line improve with careful selection of matings. But I feel sad to think of how the off-spring may be 'set aside' should things go wrong :cry:

I know there are a few Breeders who are a mine of information about genetics etc. But I cant get my head around the 'sifting out' that sometimes has to be done . I use the example of the Velveteens. Origionally an English Lop x Rex. Sore hocks were found to be a problem ( no surprise really-Rex fur + very heavy Rabbit........) So I was told they wanted to reduce the overall size of the Velveteen to try to eliminate the weight induced sore hocks. Apparently a Dwarf Lop was brought into the gene pool but this also brought in malocclusion. I dread to think how many lives were ended as a result of that mishap :cry:

I guess this is all my long winded way of saying that by Breeder Standards there may be 'good' ones. But I still dont agree with it.

Janex

[SarahP]

I have no idea how many breeders are reputable. It's probably also clouded by those that don't breed accidentally, but breed once and then discover that finding homes was really difficult (or have a bad experience), so never do it again. I would imagine there are quite a few of those type of people, the results of which rescues are having to deal with.

A classic example I can think of is my parents' neighbours. They got a couple of rabbits from a pet shop, and didn't know what sex they were. My mum said to them, 'surely you need to know, to make sure they don't breed?' and the answer was 'no, it's OK - if they get pregnant we'll just sell the babies to the pet shop. Will give the kids the chance to make a bit of money'. :roll: Those sorts of people. As it happens, I think they turned out to be the same sex - phew.

[amber26]

I do breed like i said each pair i let have one or two clutches last year

Bearing in mind i have got

2 pairs of kakarikis
Poppet and dobber had two clutches last year with two chicks in each one i hand reared and she lives with me one my friend had to pair with her boy and two went to my friend

Rosie and dobber are not going to be bred this year because rosie is too old rosie and dobber are going too live out there days with me

I have got poppet and her boyfriend pops they are two young


i have got 4 pairs of parrotlets one pair will never breed has the boy is blind and the other three have never bred has were two young

i have got three pairs of budgies none of bred yet !!!!!!

i have got two pairs of tiels the first pair have had another clutch one i had too hand rear 2 left with mum i have already got homes for these i was asked especially for these

other pair too young

[Denny]

well I am a reputable breeder of human's although I have only produced 2, first one was planned, second one was a complete and utter mystery as to how it happened but, I would only breed what I could afford so stopped at 2:D:lol::lol: We also had in place instructions as to who became our childrens legal guardians in the event of our death (when they were younger) as like most, no parent wishes their child to end up being looked after by the state welfare sector but sadly for some, for one reason or another alot of children do through no fault of their own:( and some do because it is of their doing:lol:

All animals have a natural instinct to breed and left to their own devices will do so but nature controls itself on this level where as us humans are controlling when they breed and who to breed whether that be from a gym slip bun to a OAP bun:(

I would not personally breed, I dont see the point whilst so many animals need homes but, where as I have a choice whether or not to keep a human baby should I become pregnant I am not sure I could terminate an animal pregnancy should one of mine accidentally get pregnant (not that they would as all of my animals past and present have had the snip except for the hampsters;)) but then I also know that should I ever experience an accidental litter that I could not bear to be parted with them so they would have to stay with me:D This is where responsibility kicks in though, if you have an accident then fair enough, learn from the mistake and move on but dont make the same mistake twice, which is why after a termination my OH was quickly booked in for the snip and tuck:lol::lol:

Why do people breed animals, I dont really know the full answer as I do not and have not breed an animal/pet but I expect it comes into a few catagories for different types of breeders

1. breed to sell and make money
2/ breed to continue and healthy line of a species
3/ breed to show although I have never understood this concept of producing a rabbit for competition and human gratification for a trophy:roll:
4/ breed because they only like the baby stage which some humans do to and again, I have never understood that either as I prefer them when they can walk and talk :lol::lol:
5/ All species including humans here - breed because they are too stupid to understand what contraceptive means or sterilisation:roll:

[Deelove]

I've seen both rat and dog breeders sell their animals with a 'no breeding from claus' If you can go back to them at the appropriate age with documents showing the animal has had the correct genetic tests and have found a suitable partner for it then they may lift the clause.

That was if someone wants their animals to carry on the pedigree they have to have the breeders approval. I think if breeders of rabbits did this, and placed more enphasis on the 'pedigree' part, it would make people think they were more special and thus be less inclined to breed them willy nilly.

[elve]

I agree. If there where no breeders and only rescues (that would never happen as it couldn’t unless rescues started breeding them) there would be a lot lower quality rabbits out there.

:wave: Keeper of 6 'low quality' rabbits here - they are all adorable, so far healthy (touch wood knowing bunnies :roll:) and I think they are all quite stunning looking too. Just how do you define a rabbit that is 'low quality'? Would that by chance be a rabbit that's not from a breeder? Mine are all from someone's back garden accidents - but I don't see that they are any less desirable as pets.

If there's no money in breeding rabbits there is certainly the thrill of creating new life - and what a big ego trip that must be. Would I enjoy such a thrill? And here is maybe why breeders differ from non-breeders - People such as myself engage brain rather than following heart. Does that make our lives less exciting and wonderful? Possibly so - but if it makes our animals lives happier I'm sure it's worth the sacrifice.

[Ben's mum]

:wave: Keeper of 6 'low quality' rabbits here - they are all adorable, so far healthy (touch wood knowing bunnies :roll:) and I think they are all quite stunning looking too. Just how do you define a rabbit that is 'low quality'? Would that by chance be a rabbit that's not from a breeder? Mine are all from someone's back garden accidents - but I don't see that they are any less desirable as pets.

I obviously can't speak for someone else, and I think quality is perhaps the wrong word, but if the only "source" of rabbits was accidental litters or BYBs, who breed willynilly, the overal rabbit health would begin to decline due to the careless breeding which is likely to make malloclusion and other genetic health problems rife amongst the population

[elve]

I obviously can't speak for someone else, and I think quality is perhaps the wrong word, but if the only "source" of rabbits was accidental litters or BYBs, who breed willynilly, the overal rabbit health would begin to decline due to the careless breeding which is likely to make malloclusion and other genetic health problems rife amongst the population

you forgot to add 'in my opinion' - you have no proof this would happen, it's pure speculation :?

[chloaster]

I too am somewhat sceptical about what classes a "reputable breeder" My four rex boys came from a breeder, Mandy correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they lost their Mum and the breeder was going to cull them because they weren't up to show standard. Now I am pretty certain he would class himself as a reputable breeder because he is obviously trying to produce rabbits of good quality and class?

Now if he had taken the responsibilty of rehoming them himself rather than passing them onto Kirkby would that have made it ok? Those four boys were still rejects from a breeder and potentially taking up four homes other rescue buns could have had, but because they went through a rescue they are rescue buns .......... is the attempt to breed the show class rabbit right? What about the ones that don't make the grade? Like has been pointed out rabbits can have large litters and to get maybe one or two "acceptable" kits from a litter leaves several in need of new homes - or facing the culling option.

[Ben's mum]

you forgot to add 'in my opinion' - you have no proof this would happen, it's pure speculation :?

That's a bit of unfair nitpicking - I think the majority of posts on here are based on opinions, it's pretty obvious that when someone says something, they're saying it from their opinion, unless quoting someone or saying they got the idea from such-and-such ;) I wouldn't go around your food threads saying "You forgot to add 'in my opinion' - you have no proof it tastes like a cheese and brown sauce sandwich, it's pure speculation" :P
I've seen enough genetical problems in petshop "stock" and I'm sure we've all heard about the dodgy health of BYB rabbits to realise the majority don't take health into consideration at all. The same thing has happened with dogs - if you go to a petshop or BYB, the chances of getting a dog with hip dysplacia, problems with it's breathing if it's a pug-type squished-up-face breed, digestive disorders, etc. are higher.

[Lucy]

There is certainly an 'ideal' we have for what is a reputable breeder, which is usually what we would do ourselves. It's hard to know sometimes as people can be harsh :censored: [use the censored icon please] sometimes. Some people who say they care for animals don't care in the way I do!

[Ben's mum]

There is certainly an 'ideal' we have for what is a reputable breeder, which is usually what we would do ourselves. It's hard to know sometimes as people can be harsh :censored: [use the censored icon please] sometimes. Some people who say they care for animals don't care in the way I do!

I agree - it's hard to define a "good breeder" with a strict set of ideals because people's own ideals vary hugely. Things like the size of accomodation, number of rabbits in a group/household, best food to feed, amount of veg, whether they're indoor or outdoor buns, whether you'd PTS for a terminal condition as soon as it was diagnosed or wait until they show signs of pain, etc. all vary hugely between individuals so what someone might class as a good breeder might not meet someone else's standards.

[blueboy]

“Does it really matter though if a pet breed dies out for they have no function outside of being a 'pet'. I get seriously annoyed some people put more effort into saving some rare breed of dog than tigers or other endangered species”

I disagree. If no one cared to help save rare breeds then we would end up with the same type of rabbit (probably lop) over time. This would just leave the rabbit species weak.

“I can't understand why people would want to breed if they are fully aware of the situation of rescues.”

Because not everyone wants to rescue. Everyone keeps rabbits for different reasons such as: rescuing, breeding, pets, a friend, showing….you can't rescue to satisfy all of those needs.

“Keeper of 6 'low quality' rabbits here - they are all adorable, so far healthy (touch wood knowing bunnies ) and I think they are all quite stunning looking too. Just how do you define a rabbit that is 'low quality'? Would that by chance be a rabbit that's not from a breeder? Mine are all from someone's back garden accidents - but I don't see that they are any less desirable as pets.”

What I meant was that the majority of rabbits in rescues are probably bred from back yard breeders, and therefore have genetic problems. A professional breeder will pick of the healthiest rabbits they have and breed them for healthier off spring, then use the hardiest out that litter and so on. I didn’t mean it as an insult, all rabbits are gorgeous but some people really do have a passion for rabbits and want the healthiest they can find just as some people will only buy lops. I was not aiming that at pure breeds to cross breeds either, You can actually get strong cross breeds - in fact I have been lead to believe that nearly all cross breeds are far better the pure breeds full stop. Its silly to say you disagree with breeding because you wouldn't have the pets you do if it wasn't for breeders (right or wrong). The reality is we need rescues and we need breeders….what we don’t need is inexperienced people/children breeding for cute kits and fun.

[rabshan]

As many of you know i take in ex-breeder bunnies:)
I have dealt with good and bad breeders so maybe i am in a position to reply to some of these questions:roll:
The bad breeders are the ones who do not bother to try to rehome their unwanted buns but just cull them:cry::evil:
The good ones will try to find someone to rehome them to:)most of these bunnies are in very good condition and are a joy to have:)
I have also taken on some in very poor condition who have had missing ears:cry:matted coats:cry:bad teeth and various other ailments:evil:
I never judge these people i am just glad to get the buns out of a bad situation and nurse them better (which is reward enough) ALTHOUGH I COULD DO WITHOUT THE HORRENDOUS VET BILLS:lol:
One breeder that i used to deal with would sell her unwanted:cry:not show standard babies to help pay for the cost of keeping her show standard ones:cry:another who lives near me kills hers when they are past-their-sell-by date:evil:even though they have made her loads of money:evil:
A good breeder takes time to find a home for their buns when they are no longer able to breed them which is where i come in:)
I have also visited some not very good rescues in my travels :cry:

[Jack's-Jane]

I have been thinking ( OUCH!! :rolleyes:) about this 'good breeder' issue.
I know I will never be able to understand why anyone wants to breed Rabbits but putting that aside ( difficult!!) this is *my* criteria for a good breeder

1- A1 Knowledge of genetics to minimise risk of congenital problems

2- Strict limit to litters per year and amount of stock kept

3- No 'culling' in the true sense of the word. All unshowable/unbreedable Rabbits will be homed *carefully* as pets or kept by breeder as pets

4- Any Rabbit sold taken back if buyer unable to keep

5- Accomodation of stock meeting new Animal Welfare Act standards

6- Veterinary attention *never* denied on account of cost

7- 'Retired' breeding stock rehomed *carefully* as a pet and NOT culled

8- Breeder will not supply Pet Shop Trade or cross breed from Breeds known to have a predisposition to health problems

9- Breeder will fully vaccinate stock

10- Breeder will always put Rabbit Welfare before anything else

Janex

[Snowy]

I still say that, in my opinion, there are no good breeders, I hasten to add that I am willing to be educated and I mean that sincerely and I firmly believe that you are never too old to learn, and so I keep asking for the name and address of a so called good breeder in my area and I will go and visit and judge for myself but nobody will give me any details, so if no-one can come up with one person then I think that speaks for itself.

As for the original question, I think people breed for their own ego and/or financial gain, we keep being told about breeding for showing, well that doesn't benefit the rabbit only the owner, improving the line..why? who for? it doesn't benefit the rabbits being practised with and what happens to those who don't make the standard?

[halon]

i think a lot of people breed because they like animals and don't really think about the wider consequences. I remember thinking how it would have been lovely for my cat to have kittens because she would have been a good mum. if you're going to get a new pet, you probably want one very much like your old pet so I can understand why people breed. I'm glad we did get all ours neutered though because so many cats need good homes. I think a lot of these people (your average person not a full-time breeder) just need more information about rescues. many people genuinely dont realise how many lovely animals there are out there needing a home.

I also think many pet shops are to blame for accidental breeding because they tell people they've bought two animals of the same sex without warning them how difficult it is to sex the animals correctly :rolleyes:

I find it quite odd when people talk about breeding to maintain or improve a certain breed. A lot of breeders seem to breed to get certain physical characteristics such as colour rather than good health or temperament.

Surely there are quite a few breeds out there that would probably be better off not existing because they just have so many health problems? Pug dogs or velveteen rabbits for instance. At least with mongrel/cross-breeds there's more genetic mixing so from that point of view it's actually less likely to produce unhealthy offspring. Why is it more important to keep breeds going rather than just breed good tempered healthy animals?

[Jack's-Jane]

I still say that, in my opinion, there are no good breeders, I hasten to add that I am willing to be educated and I mean that sincerely and I firmly believe that you are never too old to learn, and so I keep asking for the name and address of a so called good breeder in my area and I will go and visit and judge for myself but nobody will give me any details, so if no-one can come up with one person then I think that speaks for itself.


But given what me and thee have said about Breeders on here I dont think I am in the least surprised that none of them want to invite us round for tea ;)
Not necessarily because they have something to hide. If someone said that anyone with more than 4 Rabbits is obviously neglecting them or is a 'hoarder' but asks to be proved wrong by being given the name and address of a multi-Rabbit household that is caring for everyBun well I dont think I'd be submitting my details. So does that mean I 'must' have something to hide ?
No, it just means I feel intimidated and dont want a stranger coming to my home to 'judge' me

So I guess we wont be having tea with a breeder any time soon Snowy :cry:

Janex

[rspcarabbits]

I still say that, in my opinion, there are no good breeders, I hasten to add that I am willing to be educated and I mean that sincerely and I firmly believe that you are never too old to learn, and so I keep asking for the name and address of a so called good breeder in my area and I will go and visit and judge for myself but nobody will give me any details, so if no-one can come up with one person then I think that speaks for itself.

As for the original question, I think people breed for their own ego and/or financial gain, we keep being told about breeding for showing, well that doesn't benefit the rabbit only the owner, improving the line..why? who for? it doesn't benefit the rabbits being practised with and what happens to those who don't make the standard?

mmmm. Now you mention it we have been invoved with rabbit rescure for 10ys and to date we likewise have not come across any such breeder. Well were up the top end of norfolk so if you are out there and relatively nearby we would love to meet you.We often get asked for specific breeds and have to shrug our shoulders, it would be nice to know who we can wholeheartedly recommend. It also goes without saying if a nearby breeder wants to reprociprically visit us so that they will know what rescue to recommend we are open to inspection.

Obviously in our position we are not really in favour of breeding however we would rather recommend a breeder who comes up to some resonable welfare standards when presented with a potential owner who wants a certain bunny.

P.s Breeders who "cull" unwanted stock, do not vaccinate, sell to pet shops or generally fail to conform to the 5 freedoms as set out in the Animal Welfare Act 2007 need not apply for obvious reasons.

Please form an orderly queue, and if you are phoneing please be patient as we experience a heavy volumes of calls after such appeals:lol::lol::lol:

[rabshan]

OOhhhh eat your hearts out then cos' i have been to tea with a breeder:)in fact i have been to tea with several breeders and i must say that i had a very interesting time chatting about rabbits in general:)the genetics of breeding (that went a bit over my head i,m afraid) seeing different colours that i had only read about:)and lots of breeds:)
They are a mine of information particuarly about illness and how best to treat them:)i learned a lot on my visits:)
I will be forever grateful to the english lop breeder who gave me the name of a drug to ask my vet for when i had some bunnies go down with M.E.many years ago (even my vet was stumped over this)i got the drug and the sick buns made a full recovery:)

[rspcarabbits]

OOhhhh eat your hearts out then cos' i have been to tea with a breeder:)in fact i have been to tea with several breeders and i must say that i had a very interesting time chatting about rabbits in general:)the genetics of breeding (that went a bit over my head i,m afraid) seeing different colours that i had only read about:)and lots of breeds:)
They are a mine of information particuarly about illness and how best to treat them:)i learned a lot on my visits:)
I will be forever grateful to the english lop breeder who gave me the name of a drug to ask my vet for when i had some bunnies go down with M.E.many years ago (even my vet was stumped over this)i got the drug and the sick buns made a full recovery:)

You are absolutely right, excellent breeders are a great source of information (as are dedicated rescues) and we would like to meet them.Its just that there seem to be so few of them ....well certainly where we are, fewer who are happy to identified and fewer still that are happy to exchange visit so to speak.

As you say , they seem to have a few tricks up their sleeve as we do too so a pooling of information between two parties who both work to the same welfare standards and the greater good of rabbits sounds great.

So if you are tripping over them please share them with the rest of us, it sounds like they would be great contibutors to these pages and if possible we would love to meet.We are always happy to learn.:D

[rabshan]

Well some were already members on here:) but got driven away by the attitude to breeders by some members :cry:who fail to understand that they also care very much for their buns:)as i have said i try not to judge but to accept that not all of us feel the same about rabbits:)
I have seen the way that breeders are treated on here and it makes me sad that they are trying to join in (and who knows may come to start rescuing too!)and yet are given constant abuse:evil:
I do believe that if a breeder takes the trouble to join a group to chat about rabbits then they must care very much about them and wish that other members would try to accept that:cry:
BTW the young girl from missouri who posted a few weeks back about her sick baby bun:)well i sent her some info that i got from my breeder friend to try to help her and guess what:?she tried the treatment and the baby responded well and is now better and NO it didn,t die as many thought:)again i can only repeat that if someone comes on here asking for help then i feel that we should try to do that not hurl abuse at that person:evil:if someone cares enough to join and ask for help then surely that is the humane thing to do:)not everyone has access to rabbit savvy vets as we do in this country:cry:
So try to hold out an olive branch to breeders and maybe they will ask you to tea:)you never know you may enjoy yourselves as i did:)

[buddabun]

Well some were already members on here:) but got driven away by the attitude to breeders by some members :cry:who fail to understand that they also care very much for their buns:)as i have said i try not to judge but to accept that not all of us feel the same about rabbits:)
I have seen the way that breeders are treated on here and it makes me sad that they are trying to join in (and who knows may come to start rescuing too!)and yet are given constant abuse:evil:
I do believe that if a breeder takes the trouble to join a group to chat about rabbits then they must care very much about them and wish that other members would try to accept that:cry:
BTW the young girl from missouri who posted a few weeks back about her sick baby bun:)well i sent her some info that i got from my breeder friend to try to help her and guess what:?she tried the treatment and the baby responded well and is now better and NO it didn,t die as many thought:)again i can only repeat that if someone comes on here asking for help then i feel that we should try to do that not hurl abuse at that person:evil:if someone cares enough to join and ask for help then surely that is the humane thing to do:)not everyone has access to rabbit savvy vets as we do in this country:cry:
So try to hold out an olive branch to breeders and maybe they will ask you to tea:)you never know you may enjoy yourselves as i did:)


oh thats so good to know about the baby bunn

and i agree, we do havea tendency ot judge and abuse breeders on here and if they do take the trouble to come on here, they must care about bunnies!!

Personally I still cant see why someone would want to (other than for cute ickly fluffy babie bunsters of course ;)) but I'm quite open to education :)

[Mandy]

Its silly to say you disagree with breeding because you wouldn't have the pets you do if it wasn't for breeders (right or wrong). The reality is we need rescues and we need breeders.



No it is not silly Blueboy- people are entitled to their opinion. I disagree with breeding fundamentally. It is unnecessary to have pets, and I would be happy to not have any in the knowledge that no breeding would greatly reduce animal abuse and suffering.

We do not 'need' animals to be bred for pets.

[rspcarabbits]

Well some were already members on here:) but got driven away by the attitude to breeders by some members :cry:who fail to understand that they also care very much for their buns:)as i have said i try not to judge but to accept that not all of us feel the same about rabbits:)
I have seen the way that breeders are treated on here and it makes me sad that they are trying to join in (and who knows may come to start rescuing too!)and yet are given constant abuse:evil:
I do believe that if a breeder takes the trouble to join a group to chat about rabbits then they must care very much about them and wish that other members would try to accept that:cry:
BTW the young girl from missouri who posted a few weeks back about her sick baby bun:)well i sent her some info that i got from my breeder friend to try to help her and guess what:?she tried the treatment and the baby responded well and is now better and NO it didn,t die as many thought:)again i can only repeat that if someone comes on here asking for help then i feel that we should try to do that not hurl abuse at that person:evil:if someone cares enough to join and ask for help then surely that is the humane thing to do:)not everyone has access to rabbit savvy vets as we do in this country:cry:
So try to hold out an olive branch to breeders and maybe they will ask you to tea:)you never know you may enjoy yourselves as i did:)

Ohhhh I quite agree with every word , now sustitute the letters rspca for breeders in your peice and the same scenario applies. Some people are very quick with the wide brush strokes and phrases like "what do you expect"when refering to the lastest rspca failing rather than taking each case on its merits and understanding you are talking on here to people within the rspca who are mostly unpaid and who do care.

Now then anyone for teaaaaaaa?:lol::lol::lol: enjoyment garanteed:lol::lol::lol:

[rabshan]

Is there a ginger biccy to go with the tea then???:lol:

[blueboy]

No it is not silly Blueboy- people are entitled to their opinion. I disagree with breeding fundamentally. It is unnecessary to have pets, and I would be happy to not have any in the knowledge that no breeding would greatly reduce animal abuse and suffering.

We do not 'need' animals to be bred for pets.

So why do you have pets at all? I know people who are completely against us keeping animals and therefore they have non themselves. They would strongly disapprove of you keeping the kitty in your av. I do not at all think it is wrong keeping animals. They have longer healthier lives then their ancestors in the wild and there is no evidence to prove they are miserable in captivity either. If anything it should be nasty selfish people that stop breeding and give the world back to nature, that way no one or thing would suffer. Agree?

[Mandy]

So why do you have pets at all? I know people who are completely against us keeping animals and therefore they have non themselves. They would strongly disapprove of you keeping the kitty in your av. I do not at all think it is wrong keeping animals. They have longer healthier lives then their ancestors in the wild and there is no evidence to prove they are miserable in captivity either. If anything it should be nasty selfish people that stop breeding and give the world back to nature, that way no one or thing would suffer. Agree?

No I don't agree :lol: To be honest I don't understand you :?, can you reword it?

I have my cat because she was a stray from the RSPCA and needed a home :D I would NEVER go to a breeder for an animal, and although I love having animals around I would be happy not to have any :D I am actually one of 'those people' who don't agree with keeping pets. However it is our duty to look after the abandoned or homeless ones already here, like my cat :D

[Leanne]

I have my cat because she was a stray from the RSPCA and needed a home :D I would NEVER go to a breeder for an animal, and although I love having animals around I would be happy not to have any :D

I totally agree, I only take on rescue animals to give them a good life and would much rather a world without pets, its selfish to breed animals for our enjoyment. I would miss them dearly but i'd sacrifice my own happiness for the millions of pets lives that are stifled and controlled.

[Mandy]

I totally agree, I only take on rescue animals to give them a good life and would much rather a world without pets, its selfish to breed animals for our enjoyment. I would miss them dearly but i'd sacrifice my own happiness for the millions of pets lives that are stifled and controlled.

Yep that's just how I feel!

[hooleyslops]

Well some were already members on here:) but got driven away by the attitude to breeders by some members :cry:who fail to understand that they also care very much for their buns:)as i have said i try not to judge but to accept that not all of us feel the same about rabbits:)
I have seen the way that breeders are treated on here and it makes me sad that they are trying to join in (and who knows may come to start rescuing too!)and yet are given constant abuse:evil:
I do believe that if a breeder takes the trouble to join a group to chat about rabbits then they must care very much about them and wish that other members would try to accept that:cry:
BTW the young girl from missouri who posted a few weeks back about her sick baby bun:)well i sent her some info that i got from my breeder friend to try to help her and guess what:?she tried the treatment and the baby responded well and is now better and NO it didn,t die as many thought:)again i can only repeat that if someone comes on here asking for help then i feel that we should try to do that not hurl abuse at that person:evil:if someone cares enough to join and ask for help then surely that is the humane thing to do:)not everyone has access to rabbit savvy vets as we do in this country:cry:
So try to hold out an olive branch to breeders and maybe they will ask you to tea:)you never know you may enjoy yourselves as i did:)


i have been following this thread and reading with interest. all i will say is that this post has been the most sensible and unpredjudiced post that i have read on here - very refreshing to read that some people are not as judgemental as many others. by the way, i am not a breeder but a keeper of 9 much loved pet buns. i have met good breeders and bad but also good rescues and a not so good. i know good pet owners and terrible pet owners. etc etc.

[Snowy]

I totally agree, I only take on rescue animals to give them a good life and would much rather a world without pets, its selfish to breed animals for our enjoyment. I would miss them dearly but i'd sacrifice my own happiness for the millions of pets lives that are stifled and controlled.

I totally 100% agree with you and then I would be redundant and could get a life!!:shock: and I would probably have some money too!

[Leanne]

I totally 100% agree with you and then I would be redundant and could get a life!!:shock: and I would probably have some money too!

:lol: :lol: :lol: Tell me about it!!! Imagine going away without the worry of whether the animals are ok or ebing able to afford the holiday even! :lol:
We would probably spend all our cash on cuddly toys instead and drag them round with us :shock:

[elve]

I totally 100% agree with you and then I would be redundant and could get a life!!:shock: and I would probably have some money too!

I'd be travelling the world :rolleyes: I can think of plenty I'd rather be doing than cleaning up the mess other people have made by breeding their animals - but I labour under some daft notion that we humans (intelligent and able to make choices) have a duty to make wise, caring choices for the helpless, vulnerable animals on this planet - not exploit that helplessness.

[blueboy]

No I don't agree :lol: To be honest I don't understand you :?, can you reword it?

I have my cat because she was a stray from the RSPCA and needed a home :D I would NEVER go to a breeder for an animal, and although I love having animals around I would be happy not to have any :D I am actually one of 'those people' who don't agree with keeping pets. However it is our duty to look after the abandoned or homeless ones already here, like my cat :D



Well it doesn’t make any sense to me coming from somebody who actually has animals in their home, to say they don’t agree with keeping animals. It wouldn’t surprise me if you have more pets then I currently do. It doesn’t matter where they came from it is still an animal in captivity. Another point being is that not everyone puts their “pets” into that category as just being “pets”. There are some people who indeed “need” their furry companions, such as lonely & disabled people, and most of the animals are happy to help their human companion. This forum is starting to sound like an animal rights campaign. I don’t think people should join a forum based on "pet rabbits" to then be told it’s bad to keep them in the first place. Because that is the picture you are painting.

[Mandy]

Well it doesn’t make any sense to me coming from somebody who actually has animals in their home, to say they don’t agree with keeping animals. It wouldn’t surprise me if you have more pets then I currently do. It doesn’t matter where they came from it is still an animal in captivity. Another point being is that not everyone puts their “pets” into that category as just being “pets”. There are some people who indeed “need” their furry companions, such as lonely & disabled people, and most of the animals are happy to help their human companion. This forum is starting to sound like an animal rights campaign. I don’t think people should join a forum based on "pet rabbits" to then be told it’s bad to keep them in the first place. Because that is the picture you are painting.

Perhaps if you re read my post where I explained my beliefs you will understand: :)

I am actually one of 'those people' who don't agree with keeping pets. However it is our duty to look after the abandoned or homeless ones already here, like my cat

How many animals do you have? I only have one :D

It is not an animal rights 'campaign' nor a 'pet rabbits' forum, there are very mixed views on here- breeders, pet owners, rescues and everyone is entitled to their own view, including me :D

[Cob-Web]

I am actually one of 'those people' who don't agree with keeping pets. However it is our duty to look after the abandoned or homeless ones already here, like my cat :D

Would you support for a call for legislation to ban all companion animals? Obviously, it wouldn't prevent all breeding, but if owning a pet was banned, then any that were seized by the authorities would have been bred illegally and could either be humanely PTS, or only *rescued* by registered and licensed people :?

[Wabbit]

Well it doesn’t make any sense to me coming from somebody who actually has animals in their home, to say they don’t agree with keeping animals. It wouldn’t surprise me if you have more pets then I currently do. It doesn’t matter where they came from it is still an animal in captivity. Another point being is that not everyone puts their “pets” into that category as just being “pets”. There are some people who indeed “need” their furry companions, such as lonely & disabled people, and most of the animals are happy to help their human companion. This forum is starting to sound like an animal rights campaign. I don’t think people should join a forum based on "pet rabbits" to then be told it’s bad to keep them in the first place. Because that is the picture you are painting.

Of course it matters where the animals come from! If you buy from breeders or pet shops, you are keeping the pet trade going. If, however, you adopt rescue animals, you are helping to clear up the mess caused by breeding.

I am in agreement with Mandy. I am against pet-keeping and would love to see an end to it. In the meantime though, we need good homes for all the rescue animals who already exist. If caring people didn't take them on, what on earth would happen to them? If nobody rehomed from rescues, they would be too full to be able to help more needy animals.

Jenny

[Leanne]

Would you support for a call for legislation to ban all companion animals? Obviously, it wouldn't prevent all breeding, but if owning a pet was banned, then any that were seized by the authorities would have been bred illegally and could either be humanely PTS, or only *rescued* by registered and licensed people :?


If there were no market (people buying from breeders/shops) there would be no breeding. You couldn't bring in a law to ban keeping pets and not also ban people breeding them at the same time.

I would support it :D It would never happen though!

[Leanne]

Well it doesn’t make any sense to me coming from somebody who actually has animals in their home, to say they don’t agree with keeping animals.

I think you have totally missed the point Mandy is trying to say.
She, like I and many others, only keep pets to save them from a horrible life.
We care enough about animals to want to give them the best life possible whilst they are brought into this world and dumped through no fault of their own but at the same time would be more than happy for 'pets' to slowly become extinct. If an animal isn't born it will never know life. Pets aren't part of the earths eco systems so aren't a neccessity for this world.

[Mandy]

I think you have totally missed the point Mandy is trying to say.
She, like I and many others, only keep pets to save them from a horrible life.
We care enough about animals to want to give them the best life possible whilst they are brought into this world and dumped through no fault of their own but at the same time would be more than happy for 'pets' to slowly become extinct. If an animal isn't born it will never know life. Pets aren't part of the earths eco systems so aren't a neccessity for this world.

Much more eloquently put than my post :thumb: :lol:

[Leanne]

Much more eloquently put than my post :thumb: :lol:

Yours was just as eloquent, I just thought I would try and make it simpler to read... :)

[rspcarabbits]

This thread is sure going to some deep dark places. Hav'nt read about the meaning of life yet but I know its going to come! :lol::lol::lol:

[blueboy]

Of course it matters where the animals come from! If you buy from breeders or pet shops, you are keeping the pet trade going. If, however, you adopt rescue animals, you are helping to clear up the mess caused by breeding.

You can't just walk past a rabbit because of his location :shock: That’s awful! Poor bunnies :cry: Ok granted that is your opinion but I could never just walk past a rabbit because of its location, be it in a pet shop, breeder or garden centre. I want to stop irresponsible breeders and pet owners NOT the end animal companionship. I must say i am gob-smacked that anyone would want to end it. If this is the reason many dislike breeders then I am dumbfounded and quite upset!

[blueboy]

Pets aren't part of the earths eco systems so aren't a neccessity for this world.

:shock:
Maybe not to you! Did it not ever accrue to you that animals bring a lot of people “happiness”.

Ill be quite honest, after reading some of these comments and what people really rescue for I don’t think Ill ever rescue again! :shock:

[Mandy]

I must say i am gob-smacked that anyone would want to end it. If this is the reason many dislike breeders then I am dumbfounded and quite upset!

Why does that upset you? :? Please explain.

Ill be quite honest, after reading some of these comments and what people really rescue for I don’t think Ill ever rescue again!

Why would other people's views on pet keeping affect whether you get an animal from a rescue or not? If you agree with keeping pets, why would you decide not to rescue just because other people don't like the concept of keeping pets? In an earlier post you said all animals need homes I could never just walk past a rabbit because of its location

:? Please explain.

[RusselRocky]

My Dad and I bred horses, we bred them for the breed (Cleveland Bay) as they are now rare in this country, a lot of crosses but few pure, they are beautiful. At one point there were only 250 in this country but we bumped the numbers up a bit!! :lol:

Also Clydesdales!! They were for working with though... I still have a bred one1! Love him!! :)

[Leanne]

:shock:
Maybe not to you! Did it not ever accrue to you that animals bring a lot of people “happiness”.

Ill be quite honest, after reading some of these comments and what people really rescue for I don’t think Ill ever rescue again! :shock:

Do you know what an eco system is? :?

I KNOW they bring happiness to many people, myself included, I find nothing else brings a huge grin to my face when I see my rabbits grazing or binkying or my cats rolling around on their backs etc etc.

You totally misunderstand everything I am saying and I really don't think im going to make you understand.

Some people in this world put the happiness of others before themselves ;)

I also do not understand why you would stop rescuing animals because of comments on a forum? :?

[Leanne]

This thread is sure going to some deep dark places. Hav'nt read about the meaning of life yet but I know its going to come! :lol::lol::lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[SOAD]

You can't just walk past a rabbit because of his location :shock: That’s awful! Poor bunnies :cry:


:shock:


Ill be quite honest, after reading some of these comments and what people really rescue for I don’t think Ill ever rescue again! :shock:

Hmmmmmm I don't understand :? I thought you just said that we can't walk past a rabbit because of his location, but you then go on to say you can walk past a rescue rabbit, which is it? :?

[blueboy]

Its upsetting because certain people wouldn’t careless if all pet animals died out. People think of “pets” as a sad, miserable animal locked away in a cage, but more and more people are getting better but it takes time. The whole reason why rabbits breed so much is to prevent them dieing out. Of course that is unlikely to even happen but the thought still isn’t very nice. If it did think people should back off and let “nature” run its course.


“Why would other people's views on pet keeping affect whether you get an animal from a rescue or not?”

Because I don’t want to “help people” achieve their goals with something like this. When I rescue animals I do it because I love them and because I am in the situation where I could help. But I am certainly not willing to help when the only reason people rescue is to contribute to them dieing out, weather its likely or not. That is the message I have received here.


“Please explain.”

I am sure it’s obvious? I don’t think where the rabbit is should cost it a home. If you saw a rabbit in a pet store would you get him/her even though you really liked the bunny? No. Why? Because of the location. If that same bunny was passed to a rescue you would rehome it. I understand why people don’t buy from a pet store but at the end of the day its all about location and what point people are trying to prove.

“Hmmmmmm I don't understand I thought you just said that we can't walk past a rabbit because of his location, but you then go on to say you can walk past a rescue rabbit, which is it?”

That is very true. But my sudden scare on rescuing over the last 30 minutes has been over some shocking comments on here, not based on location. People would rather pets didn't breed anymore and died out so they rescue. That really did hit a nerve.

[rabshan]

Personally i think a world without "pet" animals would be a far sadder place and not one i would want to contemplate:cry:
Yes some people will always abuse animals just as they abuse fellow humans/children/old people:shock::evil:probably because it makes them feel powerful:evil:but i still think that the majority of us benefit from having animals to care for and take our responsiblitiies seriously:)
I got into rescue for my own reasons mainly because i had some rabbits "dumped" on me:cry: no one wanted them so i decided to try to help to rehome them and others :)only then i fell in love with them and so they stayed:)
I really can,t imagine a world where we would not have animals living with us:cry:we get so much from them and as these are tame animals would they survive without our help:?
My pets have as much freedom as i can give them without compromising their safety:)if they were not pets they would quickly become a foxes dinner:evil:

[Cob-Web]

If there were no market (people buying from breeders/shops) there would be no breeding. You couldn't bring in a law to ban keeping pets and not also ban people breeding them at the same time.

I would support it :D It would never happen though!

Even if breeding companion animals was prohibited by law, people would still breed illegally for the black market, and so animals would still be brought into the world.

Animals would be bred and owned as pets secretly, kept in less than suitable conditions and not given veterinary treatment when needed.

I do agree that something needs to be done, but I don't think banning breeding or pet ownership is the way forward :?

[cute_fuzzies]

I agree with all that Bens_mum has said regarding breeders - responsible breeders are the way forward in propagating good care advice and information and thus reducing the numbers of animals handed into rescue. I understand that folks in 'the rescue scene' probably do not come across these very often - simply because the rabbits they end up dealing with are more likely to be those from the irresponsible breeders. So, clearly, because they do not come across those with morals and ethics in their day to day work, are going to be of the opinion that there are not really many. And there probably aren't, if we're thinking of proportions.

But surely that's because the whole point is that a rescue won't be dealing with the offspring of a responsible breeder? And because they are dealing with the day-to-day 'sharp end' of irresonsible breeding will of course make their feelings sour towards those who breed. I hope that makes sense :lol: I would like to see the numbers of irresponsible breeders diminish, and have more responsible, caring breeders taking their place.

I would be horrified if I could not keep pets, simply because one portion of the pet-keeping public cannot do it correctly??! Why should we be punished for other peoples mistakes? More legislation is the way forward, to ensure that those who cannot care for animals adequately are punished, not those who do care and cater for their animals.

I know people will disagree (and quite clearly DO disagree :lol:), but that's my opinion on the subject :)

[nursecroft]

Crikey there are so many hostile conversations going on on here!! Be real guys we'll never stop people breeding animals, all animals are bred for specific reasons and i think saying they should not be bred at all is quite an extreme view.

I have had a horrendous time, i lost my 28 year old step brother this year and my mum has terminal cancer for a start, without my animals i would have been lost, maybe that is selfish but they lift me up when im down, they make me smile when i want to cry and they love me back without judgement or critism.

I think we could learn alot from them.

I had animals all around me growing up, you'd never find me sat infront of the tv, i was up at 5am to ride my pony and muck her out before school, i was always rescuing animals. It taught me to appreciate life, to care for the people/animals around me and understand life/death. They teach you responsibilty and lots of lifes hard lessons.

Yes alot suffer and this needs to be addressed with legislation and through giving people like the rspca more power to deal with neglect and abuse properly. But unfortunately this is life, people and animals suffer, all we can do is do our best to try and reduce this as much as we can.

[angelis]

i would like to have my say on dogs , i am not a breeder but want to be i will be breeding from my dog the end of the year but i will do all in my power to make sure i breed tested sound stock
my ***** has to have all her health checks & pass them if she doesn't she will be spayed
i will have endorsements on the pups
& contracts signed by new owner if they cant keep the pup it comes back to me .
i want to do the best for my pups

i do show dogs & am breeding to inprove the breed standard i have spent months researching pedigrees finding dog to complement my girl.

witch i think is what breeding should be about
also i will not breed if i dont intend on keeping any

angelis

[Poppymum]

Okay...I ahve read this thread (and what a thread!) and I am going to stick my oar in.

I have never bred a rabbit, and do not plan to. I have never bred a guinea pig and do not plan to.

I have however made the mistake of buying GP's from a pet shop. Two have died within a year. I am planning on having more, but I will be going to a breeder, and I will be researching these breeders. I want a healthy pet, and IMO the way to (almost) get that healthy pet is to look for the breeders who check for this.

I own a show dog (rough collie) she was bred purely to show, but she has retained her working instincts, for which the breed was invented.

I am looking for another rough, and yes, if she passes the health checks and proves to be of good enough quality then I may breed from her. Not for the cute ness of the puppies, not to bring financial gain to myself (there is no money in breeding, unless you are on a commercial scale) but to better the breed. Roughs were in a state of decline after the "lassie" films, and thankfully are on their way up.

I do not support bad breeders, bad rescues, bad owners or bad pet shops.

I do wholeheartedly support good breeders, good rescues, good owners.

[somebun]

I think a world without pets would be a sad one... I do breed the occassional litter of piggies, but only from healthy stock and only once or twice from both boar and sow and usually keep the babies myself or good friends/family have them:D I would not breed if there was nowhere for them to go, my animals mean the world to me and I also rescue animals too.... (I do not, obviously, breed rescue piggies;))

[AllForTheAnimals]

I breed rabbit occasionally I only do it for the money well thats a bad way to put it because I need the money to pay for my adult rabbits. Because my parents don't pay for them I do I think it is ok for people to breed animals as long as they have responsible homes and enough money and housing for the litter(s) untill they get the new homes

[willowholly]

Im not one for breeders as on other sites they seem to breed and breed and breed then moan if they're not the ''right''colour to show etc etc.But on the other hand without breeders we possibly wouldn't have the beautiful buns we have today.maybe buns should have 1litter only just to keep the breeds going.Thats just my opinion.Sorry if offended.I personally could never breed cos i'd want to keep all the babies!!:lol:

[AllForTheAnimals]

I know what you mean willowholly! I love all the kits but if I didn't sell those than I wouldn't have my wonderful little angels I personally don't think the breeders you are talking about deserve the name 'rabbit enthousiests':no: their really not just collectors but some like myself are truly ethnic breeders:thumb:

[Brooksey]

My rabbit was called Minstrell, she was getting broody, so I let her have one litter before I had her sprayed. I had homes for 2 of them when they were 3 weeks old we were going to keep one. She had 3 in her litter. At 8 weeks old ,the people let me down who was going to give them a home for different reasons.
It was a miracle,(giving birth) I could not believe how quick it all was, Minstrell was a fantastic mum, she still fed them till just before or around 10 weeks old.
Minstrell was my girl, and she was given the all clear at a check up alittle later.
I would like to think I was a responsible pet owner.
I had readvertised my bunnies but were not going to allow them to go with anyone, and I had turned a few people down because I knew they would not be looked after properly.
As another month went by, we all got closer and closer to them, and discussed keeping them, we live in a flat and Minstrell was an indoor rabbit so the others would have to be too.
In March Minstrell collapsed and died, all of a sudden, we could not believe it.
It broke my heart. She wasn't ill or anything, she had gone off her food alittle the evening before, but nothing to say she was going to leave us.
I was so happy we kept all 3 of them.
If I needed to get another bunny my pet shop is fantastic, but I would seriously think of a rescue bunny first.
Best wishes

[animal ry]

i breed not all the time through and i have a pregnant guinea at the moment!!:D evryone loves the babys!!! and no i dont know anyone that breeds to put in show and i keep the girls and sell the boys as the girls love the group bond together :D

:D


yay i got pics of them FINALLY!!!!!!!


http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q443/animalry/mumscamerapics162.jpg


http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q443/animalry/mumscamerapics163.jpg

[animal ry]

i breed at times its soo nice to see them pregnant and the babys and just soo rewarding :D

[Poppymum]

I dont have any issues with people who breed responsilbly.

I am currently on the hunt for a baby boy guinea pig to bond with Marvin, and Im also looking for a friend for Jasmine. If I find rescues that I like, then I will go down that route..if not I will look for a good breeder.

[Admin edit]