PAH adoption

[unalakey]

Today in my local PAH store there was a young rabbit in the adoption bit named 'Lucifer' that stated on the sign 'Originally for sale but no-one wanted to buy me' :cry: I thought that PAH didnt put their own stock in the adoption bit? Please correct me if i am wrong:wave:

[Ben's mum]

I think they do - they just usually make up a more creative excuse from what I've heard!

[jackiestone]

That is sad!I dont know what their adoption section policy is.Can someone take their pet in because it is ill and cant be bothered to pay the vets bills,and as some pets at home stores are also vets,they think that that will be taken care of??:evil:
One of my rabbits spent 5 months in the pet shop in a tiny cage,the lady i got him from only got him because she felt sorry for him.It is so sad,i dont think the pet shop made any effort to make people aware that he needed a good home and that he had been there a long time.I suppose pet shops shouldnt sell animals at all :?

Jackie x

[unalakey]

Thanks, this wasnt a very creative excuse they told the truth:roll: poor rabbit, it has gone from being 20 odd quid to more or less free!!

[elaine]

don;t worry if it is like my store they will get it for a £2 donation. (at the moment I am still fuming) they let guineas go for £1 and £2 rabbits so anyone can now get one on the spur of the moment

[Beebop]

It seems every shop is has a law of its own:roll:

i guess its better than being sent back to the mill though where they'd have been used as a breeding machine!:( Poor bun, how i hate P@h

[Leanne]

Yep they will take 50p at my local store.

[honeybunny]

What a great "adoption" scheme:evil::evil:

[Ben's mum]

Also it's convenient that petshops aren't legally allowed to sell a known ill/disabled animal but you're allowed to adopt them out..:roll:

[Lucy]

Someone at our local store approached our branch about this. She was in charge of the scheme but didn't actually know anything about. SHe also claimed not to be able to access the letter she was going to send to us unless she had our address to send it to. :roll: they really do employ some intelligent people don't they. Needless to say I only want to see the letter, we have no intention of affiliating ourselves with such a place. We want to keep a repuation as a reputable rescue thank you very much.

[unalakey]

What i dont understand is the rabbit is still young and definately still in the 'cutey stage', Poor rabbit, i only hope it gets a decent home.:cry:

[Lspacehopper]

Someone at our local store approached our branch about this. She was in charge of the scheme but didn't actually know anything about. SHe also claimed not to be able to access the letter she was going to send to us unless she had our address to send it to. :roll: they really do employ some intelligent people don't they. Needless to say I only want to see the letter, we have no intention of affiliating ourselves with such a place. We want to keep a repuation as a reputable rescue thank you very much.

I'm a store manager for the company and I like to class myself as quite intelligent, so don't think everyone is the same.

At my store we are currently paired up with a local cat and dog rescue and I would love the opportunity to pair up with a small animal rescue, but I'm actually wary to approach any local rescues because of this type of attitude.

I do a display board where we advertise the animals needing rehoming. We do write ups and photos for each one in the rescue centre.

It has helped to raise their profile and even if it helps them rehome just one dog or cat then it's worth it. So far it's been successful working with them. They get the donations of food and toys that are given into store and they are able to apply for grants from the charitable foundation if they need it.

If small animal rescues were a little more inclined to get involved, it may well mean that you get the chance to do some educating as far as the public AND the store is concerned.

I know I'm doing my bit to help, but it would be great to do a little bit more.

[Lucy]

Please stop trying to defend this store. Why should the store need educating unless it's staff are ill educated in animal husbandry? Take a look on here at all the things that go on. It's indefencable really. My 'attitude' towards this store shall remain the same until it stops selling animals. If you never realsied before now why small and local rescues have a bad attitude towards your store, it's probably because most of their work comes from people that 'adopt' or buy from your stores.

[bunlover]

i think that ljspacehopper is just stating an opiinion from inside. also i think if as a store manager she practises good animal knowledge in her staff and good animal care(cannot say as have not visited her store as do not know which one it is) she seems to care about the animals, i do not think she is trying to undermine anyones ideas about pah but is stating that as with all things there are good and bad stores...just as there are good and bad owners and good and bad rescues. i too agree in general that pah needs to stop selling animals and only do rehoming of rescue animals then it would be a better store. but until that happens all we can do is report the bad things so that they improve. nb i am not defending pah nor am i going against it i just want anything wrong in stores put right. animals should be a priority in life not a sales pitch.

[Tamsin]

I'm sure staying as far away from them as possible and yelling insults is a very productive way of getting change achieved.

Yep, maybe they should be doing all this on their own with no help or guidance from people experienced at assessing good homes, working with rescues etc. but if they're not managing on their own then just perhaps, giving a little bit of assistance might be worth a go???

Did you see the topic about Petco in the states stopping sales? Do you know why? Local rescues went into stores and educated the staff, provided rescue alternatives to pet sales - and you know what, it worked!

People have been moaning for ages about things needing to change and now the pet shops are inviting rescues to help them change and the rescues are refusing.

Tamsin

[bunlover]

Someone at our local store approached our branch about this. She was in charge of the scheme but didn't actually know anything about. SHe also claimed not to be able to access the letter she was going to send to us unless she had our address to send it to. :roll: they really do employ some intelligent people don't they. Needless to say I only want to see the letter, we have no intention of affiliating ourselves with such a place. We want to keep a repuation as a reputable rescue thank you very much.

also this branch sounds like a bad one if they know nothing of the scheme. when the staff are properly educated about the scheme and can pair up correctly with a rescue therefore aiding adoption of animals then i think this can work well i am sorrry in your case it has worked so badly!

[cute_fuzzies]

Equally, one could say similar about some branches of the RSPCA? But then, that's a different debate entirely ;)

Lspacehopper, as far as your store goes, keep up the good work and it's nice to hear that you are helping animals get homes :)

I just hope that some of the other stores could go about this scheme in the same sort of way - don't all stores get the same guidelines?


P.S: Tamsin - a very sensible and realistic post as always :thumb:

[parsnipbun]

After a day spent doing 'outreach' for RWA in the Cambridge PAH store I was so outraged by the poor overweight bun stuck in small cage at my feet (being mauled by dogs and children alike) with a sign saying 'unwanted' that I ended up taking her home. Not to mention her poor sister who was stuck out back in an even smaller cage. The sign said these two sisters were 'unwanted'. Actually they had been purchased from PAH as a pair, then brought back because they were fighting, then sold again as a pair and brought back again and now were up for adoption as 'must be kept separate from all other buns as 'difficult' rabbits'!! The words 'neuter' did not even occur to the staff!!!

You guessed it - they were two un-neutered females who had reached maturity and the prospective owners had been sold tiny PAH cages, so of course the girls were fighting.
Brought home and neutered and re-introduced they were lovely . . although they have now been chummed up with their own male (neutered) partners each.

I complained furiously about the treatment of these 'adopts' to RWA, PAH and also the local (Wood Green) rescue who were meant to be approving of the scheme. The fuss that was made over this pair and others being kept on the shop floor for weeks on end in a tiny cage has now resulted in Cambridge PAH no longer being part of the adoption scheme. Which is just as well - as absolutely NO attempt was made at ensuring the prospective adoptees had any sort of respect or knowledge or accommodation for the rabbits. And they had the cheek to diplay a Wood Green Rescue sign as though they were carrying out the same sort of high standards!!!!!

These two had a happy home to go to at least . . . although I have to say it did put my bunny funds and accommodation at a stretching point.

The idea that you can buy a rabbit and 'take it back if you find it doesnt 'fit' is an appaling message to be giving out. Apparently most of these supposed unwanted rabbits an merely PAH returnees - or their own slightly grown uo 'less cute and saleble' ones!!

twigs

[cute_fuzzies]

The idea that you can buy a rabbit and 'take it back if you find it doesnt 'fit' is an appaling message to be giving out.

But then again, is this not because people have been complaining that the stores were not taking responsibility, resulting in the rabbits being turned into rescue?

I would have thought that offering to take the rabbits back, instead of customers handing them into rescues, would have been the very first step in trying to take responsibility? Not sure what else could be expected?

[Mandy]

Equally, one could say similar about some branches of the RSPCA? But then, that's a different debate entirely ;)


True, but P@H are a major contributor to the problem of unwanted animals, whilst the RSPCA are moping up after them ;)

By the way, are you and spacehopper paid extra by P@H to defend them? :lol::lol:

[Denny]

I'm a store manager for the company and I like to class myself as quite intelligent, so don't think everyone is the same.

At my store we are currently paired up with a local cat and dog rescue and I would love the opportunity to pair up with a small animal rescue, but I'm actually wary to approach any local rescues because of this type of attitude.

I do a display board where we advertise the animals needing rehoming. We do write ups and photos for each one in the rescue centre.

It has helped to raise their profile and even if it helps them rehome just one dog or cat then it's worth it. So far it's been successful working with them. They get the donations of food and toys that are given into store and they are able to apply for grants from the charitable foundation if they need it.

If small animal rescues were a little more inclined to get involved, it may well mean that you get the chance to do some educating as far as the public AND the store is concerned.

I know I'm doing my bit to help, but it would be great to do a little bit more.

Hi:wave::wave:

Although I am in the majority of those who wish all petshops would stop selling animals, I did originally think that this scheme might bring awareness to those animals in rescues and also make p@h more aware of the problems that bestow the selling of animals by helping those animals that are brought into yourselves. However, now seeing how the scheme seems to be working accross the country in varying stores, I am starting to see major pitfalls in the scheme:cry:

As a store manager have you thought about the consequences of having a donation scheme for these animals. With such a low price on their heads for being unwanted is no better than 'free to good home' in my opinion:cry:

I know that any animal sold un-neutered/spayed risks the chance of a life time of breeding or neglect, but donations as low as £1 or 50p:shock: will potential bring in backyard breeders, a butcher who will cull for the meat, the snake owner who if after a cheap dinner for his pet snake:cry::cry: and greyhound training:cry::cry:

Perhaps it would be a good idea as a store manager to discuss these issues with head office before word circlulates that you sell live food:cry::cry:

[cute_fuzzies]

True, but P@H are a major contributor to the problem of unwanted animals, whilst the RSPCA are moping up after them ;)

By the way, are you and spacehopper paid extra by P@H to defend them? :lol::lol:


Sorry, didn't realise I wasn't allowed an opinion :?

Are you paid to defend the RSPCA?

[Mandy]

Sorry, didn't realise I wasn't allowed an opinion :?

Are you paid to defend the RSPCA?

It was a joke, hence the laughing smilies.

No, but perhaps I should be.

[cute_fuzzies]

It was a joke, hence the laughing smilies.

No, but perhaps I should be.

Ah ok, thought you were being serious (as spacehopper quite clearly IS paid by the very same company...probably not to defend them, but is certainly an employee!)

I suppose much like you hold unsavoury views about P@H, I also hold unsavoury views of the RSPCA. HQ that is ;)

[elaine]

I can see what p@h are hoping to achieve but i think this adoption scheme really isn't working and the store near me that has my details knows fully my opininons, I think that it does help a rescue if they do link with you as I have found alot of homes for rabbits when the shop has refered people onto me, I am not sure what the answer is but they really need a correct rehoming fee if they are still intent on doing this, and to be honest the instruction is coming from their hq

I will say the local store has raised alot of money for me recently so if you can try to get them to work with you I think in time it will work, the store is well aware of what I think of the donation policy

Elaine

[katie7]

My local PAH doesn't even operate the scheme, so how comes its not in every store as well?

[parsnipbun]

But then again, is this not because people have been complaining that the stores were not taking responsibility, resulting in the rabbits being turned into rescue?

I would have thought that offering to take the rabbits back, instead of customers handing them into rescues, would have been the very first step in trying to take responsibility? Not sure what else could be expected?


Yes I considered this long and hard. I think that it would be better if:

a. the shops worked harder to establish that they sold rabbits to people that actually wanted them and*provided information about them - that they would need neutering, and how long they would live, likely vets fees etc

b. That the adoption scheme should not just be a 'bring it back and we'll flog it on for a couple of pounds' to anyone passing. But should instead be administered with a rescue that properly looks after the animals and vets prospective owners. Just like any other adoption. The animals should be properly housed in large enough cages whilst awaiting any new home - and not placed on the floor in a 2ft square indoor 'cage'.

c. I do strongly feel that by showing you can just bring them back they are encouraging the 'throwaway' mentality.

The trouble is that (a) above results in less sales. So few pet shops are going to do that.

Considering that the actual animals are more or less 'loss leaders' to bring in the customers and get them to then buy the accessories and food and come back for more food (and more rabbits when the others die young and soon) we really can't expect that much in the way of animal training.

'Responsibility' would be to refuse to actually have animals for sale but to refer people to the local rescue!

[cute_fuzzies]

parsnipbun - agreed with all the above points :) I do hope this is the way they will eventually take it. Currently my mood towards the scheme is that it is 'better than nothing' - but I would hope that in future years it evolves into something better and more responsible. Hopefully, the more people who point this out to them, the more they may consider it! It's the only way things really get changed within business...consumer demand. Which of course can also be unfortunate - because we know how much 'consumer demand' there is for pets :(

[Lspacehopper]

True, but P@H are a major contributor to the problem of unwanted animals, whilst the RSPCA are moping up after them ;)

By the way, are you and spacehopper paid extra by P@H to defend them? :lol::lol:

I actually find your comment very insulting regardless of whether you have put the smiles at the end of it.

Perhaps I can't defend all PAH but I can damn well defend my own. If I was asked by PAH to do something that I found compromised the animals welfare I would resign and make my disgust well known.

I work closely with the RSPCA inspector and she brings trainees in to be able to have a look round a PAH (unnannounced visits, just so you know). One of my ex employees has just qualified as an RSPCA inspector and she brought a colleague in the other evening for an hour or so to go through the different animals.

The animals are my primary concern above everything.

If PAH are the main contributor to the problem, explain why the animals we get brought in for adoption have come from stupid people who think it's a cute idea to breed, or local smaller pet shops, or the local markets or breeders.

Somebody came into the store the other day having travelled a fair old distance to buy a pure nethie from a breeder. I then had to spend half an hour telling them what the breeder should have told them. Vaccinations, worming, neutering, HAY.......AND the 8 week old 'baby' rabbit was going into an outdoor hutch.

I educate people. I give them the true facts and I dissuade and won't sell to someone who is buying on a whim.

I can come on here and defend because I know I am doing a good job.

[parsnipbun]

I just wish all PAH (ad other petstore) managers were like you.
I am afraid that many (to be honest , all) PAH stores I have encountered seem to have extremely little information or knowledge of rabbits - and some alarming mis-information. I seriously have heard them telling people 'they live 3-4 years, keep them on their own, no need to neuter etc etc)

Perhaps you can start a national campaign from the inside?

We need more managers like you (and I really mean this) - and I presume that eventually you will also work towards them not selling rabbits at all but recommending rescues and the just selling the food, hay etc

twigs

[kayj]

I suppose like any big store chains every branch will have certain rules to adhere to but also it depends on the manager of eac individual store. I find that you trying to put people off who you think are buying on a whim really good.
The adoptiion scheme run by P@H, I don't feel it as been thought through quite enough as all rescues do homechecks before adoptions take place to ensure the animal gets it's forever home as after all they have already been in one home and then put into rescue. I know of someone who put her rabbit into rescue for a stupid excuse (the real reason was she couldn't afford to get him neutered) and then went and adopted two rabbits from P@H now this person could not afford vet bills for the one she put in rescue but was able to just go in and adopt without any homecheck or anything.

[Lspacehopper]

Hi:wave::wave:

Although I am in the majority of those who wish all petshops would stop selling animals, I did originally think that this scheme might bring awareness to those animals in rescues and also make p@h more aware of the problems that bestow the selling of animals by helping those animals that are brought into yourselves. However, now seeing how the scheme seems to be working accross the country in varying stores, I am starting to see major pitfalls in the scheme:cry:

As a store manager have you thought about the consequences of having a donation scheme for these animals. With such a low price on their heads for being unwanted is no better than 'free to good home' in my opinion:cry:

I know that any animal sold un-neutered/spayed risks the chance of a life time of breeding or neglect, but donations as low as £1 or 50p:shock: will potential bring in backyard breeders, a butcher who will cull for the meat, the snake owner who if after a cheap dinner for his pet snake:cry::cry: and greyhound training:cry::cry:

Perhaps it would be a good idea as a store manager to discuss these issues with head office before word circlulates that you sell live food:cry::cry:


I do pass feedback to h/o all the time and regarding the donation scheme. The lowest donation we've ever had for a rabbit is £20. You can get rabbits for live food for £1.50 from the local market if that's what you're looking for.

[Tamsin]

I don't think the adoption scheme is running as they originally intended. From what I understand they were hoping for much closer involvement with local rescues and with the lack of that they're having to do it all themselves and that's causing problems.

[Lucy]

When I asked the girl who approached us about the scheme, the only bit she seemed to know was that they would provide vouchers to people who had adopted animals from us. She didn't know any other details at all.

This to me equals the store wanting a data list of potential shoppers from us. Thats what in it for them, money. They are a big store and I find it hard to believe that some people here can't see how naive they are being. A company the size of this one doesn't do something out of the goodness of the board of directors hearts. They do it to increase profit. I think they were hoping to have some good pr from it, ooh isn't it nice pets at home really love animals and run an adoption scheme to help out :roll: And also to get people who go in to use the adoption scheme to buy accessories and supplies from them and keep them coming back into store. I can see straight through it.

If some managers know enough to advise about neutering or vaccinations and bonding then great, but it seems to me that knowledge is self taught, not standard training for staff. Thats where it's all so wrong. By the way, I feel the same about all pet shops, not just this one, it's just that this one being so large creates a large number of problems, and also, when animals are not kept correctly it will affect many more than a small pet shop.

They just need to stop selling animals and I think this will happen in years to come. PetSmart in the USA has bowed to public pressure and has stopped selling rabbits. This is what needs to happen in this country.

[cheryl21]

After a day spent doing 'outreach' for RWA in the Cambridge PAH store I was so outraged by the poor overweight bun stuck in small cage at my feet (being mauled by dogs and children alike) with a sign saying 'unwanted' that I ended up taking her home. Not to mention her poor sister who was stuck out back in an even smaller cage. The sign said these two sisters were 'unwanted'. Actually they had been purchased from PAH as a pair, then brought back because they were fighting, then sold again as a pair and brought back again and now were up for adoption as 'must be kept separate from all other buns as 'difficult' rabbits'!! The words 'neuter' did not even occur to the staff!!!


I went into my local PAH store and three rabbits were in there, in separate hutches, advertised as 'not getting along with others' - again these were all unneutered/spayed. There was another lop who's ear was ripped to shreads. It looked swollen and sore. The card said it used to live with its sister, but now they dont get on. Again not spayed. And surely this rabbit shouldn't be up for adoption until her ear is healed. Or at least PAH should be checking where she will be going if she is rehomed, so that they know she will get cared for properly. I asked if they do checks before they release the bunnies to new homes, the girl said 'not really, no.' When I got bud from a rescue last year, someone came round and inspected where he would be living and asked all kinds of questions about how i was caring for stella. That way, they knew he would be looked after.

[cute_fuzzies]

all rescues do homechecks before adoptions take place to ensure the animal gets it's forever home

If only they did!

[SarahM]

We complained about the rabbit we got from P@H adoption scheme they told us a bunch of lies about him, he was a rabbit that they had had returned to them. After no luck from P@H we went to the council however thanks to a loop hole in the current legislation because he was no sold as 'stock' the council had no power to intervene. So P@H now have a very good way of 'getting rid' of any rabbits that are too old or have an illness and there can be come back. We were advised that the only thing we could do is to bring a civil case against them

[montyflossy]

I only have one thing to say really and it is not meant as spiteful, it is my opinion.

*I truly believe if you have rabbits best interests at heart you would not make a living in a business that promotes the sale of them.*

Regardless of high store standards and excellent customer service thousands of rabbits 'produced' for PAH will, or have already ended up in rescue or even worse.
I am a retail manager albeit not for a pet store but retail is all about money, I have been offered positions in the pet store business but honestly I would not sleep at night....

[Lspacehopper]

I only have one thing to say really and it is not meant as spiteful, it is my opinion.

*I truly believe if you have rabbits best interests at heart you would not make a living in a business that promotes the sale of them.*

Regardless of high store standards and excellent customer service thousands of rabbits 'produced' for PAH will, or have already ended up in rescue or even worse.
I am a retail manager albeit not for a pet store but retail is all about money, I have been offered positions in the pet store business but honestly I would not sleep at night....

Well, as an animal lover and a PAH manager I sleep at night knowing I do my best to educate people and take good care of the animals in my charge.

[Tamsin]

If people truly had rabbits best interests at heart they would never by cd's, or dvd's or any other 'luxury' items, they'd donate the money to rabbit rescues.

I don't see why a business can't have ethics. In fact sometimes they need them. If it was all about selling things for the most profit margin - we wouldn't have freerange eggs. Sometimes the best way to make cash can correspond with good welfare particularly as consumers get more aware of the issues surrounding products they buy.

People are going to get rabbits. I agree most pet shops are rubbish at giving out proper advice but that doesn't mean they have to be that way. Petco made more money when they started adopting animals out it store because people brought extra equipment from their 'things you need to buy' list.

Tam

[Lucy]

It all depends on how you do it and how you manage it. In this case, not very well.

[Becki xX]

Yep they will take 50p at my local store.

How they can put this kind of price on such a sensitive, intelligent animals little life is totally beyond me :cry:

[Tamsin]

It all depends on how you do it and how you manage it. In this case, not very well.

Yep, exactly - there is plenty of potential there. It just needs some work. I hope
they learn and things improve :)

[Lspacehopper]

How they can put this kind of price on such a sensitive, intelligent animals little life is totally beyond me :cry:

Although we would NEVER accept this type of pittance for any animal, you'll be pleased to know that guidelines have been issued to all stores to ensure that it doesn't happen.

[Lucy]

Although we would NEVER accept this type of pittance for any animal, you'll be pleased to know that guidelines have been issued to all stores to ensure that it doesn't happen.

Unfortunately guidelines are issued for lots of other things too and it doesn't seem to make an awful lot of difference, rabbits and guinea pigs cohabiting for example. However, I guess where money is involved it may do in this case though :roll:

[Lspacehopper]

Unfortunately guidelines are issued for lots of other things too and it doesn't seem to make an awful lot of difference, rabbits and guinea pigs cohabiting for example. However, I guess where money is involved it may do in this case though :roll:

The money goes to the charitable foundation, not to the company. This is a guideline that can be monitored by the figures passed through the computer system.

[MopsyMops =]]

Just quickly read through the last few posts. At our local pah they have an adoption thingy. However ( i'm not saying that yours is run like this ) our pah feel that they can put unwanted rabbit from their shop in there. ' My name is Dixie, i was unwanted rabbit in the shop and am too big so no-one wanted me' First of all the rabbit wasn't very big but to me that is sending a negative message to the prospective buyers ( ?? ) Also i don't know how they can say that is too big when they sold giant rabbits :? but yours my be totally be different. i think it all depends on the management but if they had more people like you for manangement they would get a better name for them self.

[doorkeeper]

Our rehoming noticably fell when Pets at Home started up their scheme in town:( Why should people pay for decent accomodation when they can get a rabbit or guinea pig from there without a home check? So we are full up to the gills and Pets at Home have the space for more unfortunate rabbits to go from one bad situation to another:(

We were asked by a Pets at Home an hours drive from us to join the rescue affiliation scheme, but the local branch is not a part of that and so sets up as competition instead:( Obviously it is impractical for us to keep a notice board an hour away up to date and people visiting that store are not likely to come all the way to us to rehome either.

Now we rehome mostly to people from further afield who find us on the internet.

[feeling_the_wrath_already]

Which rescue is your local branch linked up with?

If they aren't linked up with anyone yet, might be worth expressing your interest. Your local one will be linking up to a rescue of some description, whether it be cat, dog or rabbit.

[Gem]

;2250235'] However ( i'm not saying that yours is run like this ) our pah feel that they can put unwanted rabbit from their shop in there. ' My name is Dixie, i was unwanted rabbit in the shop and am too big so no-one wanted me'

Are they allowed to do that? :shock:

I was under the impression that they're not allowed to do that :?

[Tamsin]

Our rehoming noticably fell when Pets at Home started up their scheme in town:( Why should people pay for decent accomodation when they can get a rabbit or guinea pig from there without a home check? So we are full up to the gills and Pets at Home have the space for more unfortunate rabbits to go from one bad situation to another:(


If it's effected your rehoming then obviously people were willing to provide the accommodation/travel as required to adopt from you. If those people were previously willing then you just need to promote yourselves better - think of it a businesses competing if it helps. You need to promote your unique selling points - you have lots: vaccinations, neutering, bonding service, advice. They might be selling to customers that want quick, convenient, no questions asked rabbit - but they're not your customers anyway. The people you will be able/want to convert are those that are looking for a neutered rabbit or and welfare concious but aren't aware of any local rescues.

Have you spoken with them about providing your advertising materials? Your rabbits details are already formatted for RR so a local volunteer could easily print and take these into the store. Alternatively will they accept fax/email submissions to put up themselves? If people are living between you and the store then it's only a half hour trip either way.

Tamsin

[Lspacehopper]

If it's effected your rehoming then obviously people were willing to provide the accommodation/travel as required to adopt from you. If those people were previously willing then you just need to promote yourselves better - think of it a businesses competing if it helps. You need to promote your unique selling points - you have lots: vaccinations, neutering, bonding service, advice. They might be selling to customers that want quick, convenient, no questions asked rabbit - but they're not your customers anyway. The people you will be able/want to convert are those that are looking for a neutered rabbit or and welfare concious but aren't aware of any local rescues.

Have you spoken with them about providing your advertising materials? Your rabbits details are already formatted for RR so a local volunteer could easily print and take these into the store. Alternatively will they accept fax/email submissions to put up themselves? If people are living between you and the store then it's only a half hour trip either way.

Tamsin

The rescues can send the pics and stories via e-mail. They can be printed off and put on to the advertising board relevant for the charity.

We are partnered up with a dog and cat rescue that are located a fair distance from us, and their board generates quite a bit of interest. People are willing to travel for the right thing.

[elaine]

the only thing I can say yes my rehoming dropped like yours but push the fact yours are neutered and vacc and it will come back as mine has done and I do get alot of people coming to me for a rabbit from pets at home as I have my details in there, you just need to try and fight back and it will come back

[Lucy]

I look at it as though many people want to do things simply. If they can get a cheap rabbit with no checks, thats easier than getting home checked by a rescue and having to spend money on a larger hutch. P@H are just making life easy for people who don't have a clue what they are doing as usual.

[Tamsin]

I don't see how it makes it any easier than pet shops selling rabbits did.

[Lucy]

I meant for people that want to do a 'kind' thing by adopting a rabbit rather than buying it. If you can walk into a shop and do it, it would appear a lot easier wasn't it. Some people have the right intention but need guidance from us about accomodation and care. These people then end up with a shop rabbit that went unsold rather than a recue and may be sold hutches which are unsuitable etc.

[Tamsin]

I meant for people that want to do a 'kind' thing by adopting a rabbit rather than buying it. If you can walk into a shop and do it, it would appear a lot easier wasn't it. Some people have the right intention but need guidance from us about accomodation and care. These people then end up with a shop rabbit that went unsold rather than a recue and may be sold hutches which are unsuitable etc.

Yes, I see what you mean. People perceive it the same as going to rescue so it's more of direct competition that normal sales. I think that's why it's important for rescues to get involved and to promote themselves better. Even though people are doing the right thing, they are still going to have an element of selfish interest. People will still pick one rescue over another if they perceive it as giving a better deal/service so rescues to make people think they are the btter choice.

Tam

[Lucy]

I could not affiliate with that place, no matter how much people would say it benefitted us. I don't think it would, and also when people made complaints about the store, I would hate to think they could turn round and say that the rspca work in store with them, so are in effect in league with whatever goes on in that store :shock:

[dylanflo]

The bunnies at the adoption centre need homes too. It might not be ideal but the sooner they are out of there the better, despite how they got there.
Such a large organisation is hard to challenge as they dont also tend to educate their stores, as we've seen.

[Lucy]

I disagree, all you do by buying or 'adopting' one, is to make room for another to be sold. If people stopped buying or doing these fake adoptions, then the need would reduce and less rabbits would be bred and sold. By buying from there in whatever way you perpetuate the problem. Best thing is to bouycott he place until they stop selling animals. The more people that go in and feel sorry for them and buy them, the longer the sales and silly schemes like this will will last won't they!

[Snowy]

I disagree, all you do by buying or 'adopting' one, is to make room for another to be sold. If people stopped buying or doing these fake adoptions, then the need would reduce and less rabbits would be bred and sold. By buying from there in whatever way you perpetuate the problem. Best thing is to bouycott he place until they stop selling animals. The more people that go in and feel sorry for them and buy them, the longer the sales and silly schemes like this will will last won't they!

Totally agree, it's the only way to stop them, stop buying and they will have to change their buisness practise, just ask yourself why they stopped selling birds?, because people weren't buying them!!. people power works

[cashmincal]

Off course if something doesn't sell they'd stop selling it, not rocket science :wave: I know from working in retail, if we have a line that doesn't sell we stop selling it as it's just stock sitting on the shelf (off course I'm referring to products not furries!) not making any profit.

[Snowy]

Off course if something doesn't sell they'd stop selling it, not rocket science :wave: I know from working in retail, if we have a line that doesn't sell we stop selling it as it's just stock sitting on the shelf (off course I'm referring to products not furries!) not making any profit.

Absolutley correct!, but as long as people go in and buy bunnies they will keep stocking them, adoption scheme or not and we all know their adoption scheme is 'fake', it's just getting rid of their old stock

[Lspacehopper]

Absolutley correct!, but as long as people go in and buy bunnies they will keep stocking them, adoption scheme or not and we all know their adoption scheme is 'fake', it's just getting rid of their old stock

Snowy.... you couldn't be more wrong. None of our rabbits have been 'old' stock. Unfortunately we also have a very long waiting list of people wanting to give up their rabbits for one reason or another (and before you say it, no, not all bought from us in the first place...quite the opposite). You may think it's fake, I know different. Myself and my team do our damnedest to find great homes for the buns.

[Jack's-Jane]

Snowy.... you couldn't be more wrong. None of our rabbits have been 'old' stock. Unfortunately we also have a very long waiting list of people wanting to give up their rabbits for one reason or another (and before you say it, no, not all bought from us in the first place...quite the opposite). You may think it's fake, I know different. Myself and my team do our damnedest to find great homes for the buns.

Are the 'Rescues' all neutered before you rehome them?
Do you do home-checks?

Janex

[Ben's mum]

Snowy.... you couldn't be more wrong. None of our rabbits have been 'old' stock. Unfortunately we also have a very long waiting list of people wanting to give up their rabbits for one reason or another (and before you say it, no, not all bought from us in the first place...quite the opposite). You may think it's fake, I know different. Myself and my team do our damnedest to find great homes for the buns.

I've heard quite a few people who've adopted/seen animals in the adoption section who've been told by the staff themselves that they're just older stock/the signs on the cage have said so, so they're not all "genuine" rescues :?

[Snowy]

Snowy.... you couldn't be more wrong. None of our rabbits have been 'old' stock. Unfortunately we also have a very long waiting list of people wanting to give up their rabbits for one reason or another (and before you say it, no, not all bought from us in the first place...quite the opposite). You may think it's fake, I know different. Myself and my team do our damnedest to find great homes for the buns.

I KNOW it's fake, you should do a survey of other branches

[Bubby]

P@H is the same as any other chain type of store - you get good examples and bad examples. My local (Huntingdon) is clean, tidy, the animals always look healthy and active and though those in the adoption section don't get much space or privacy, they are always in good health.

I don't doubt there are stores across the country really screwing up but there are also stores with staff who care and do their best.

I don't agree with the P@H policies re: livestock but I don't think its fair to tar all the staff who actually care about the animals with the giant P@H brush.

[doorkeeper]

I don't want to be affiliated with Pets at Home. They and other places like them are the cause of the problem with rabbits and other small animals. They have nothing to offer us but they have come up with yet another way to hurt the rabbits in this area by stealing homes from us offered by people that do want to help and do the right thing but who will be given the wrong information all over again and rehome the rabbits to live in small hutches, eat the wrong diet and get the wrong care:(
They also make it easy for bad homes to get hold of a rabbit without even having to pay full retail price, stick it in someones elses reject hutch and neglect it.
People unsuited to owning rabbits who we might have educated out of the idea will now get hold of one without knowing the true costs involved:(

The fact that they started the adoption scheme here, 10 minutes away from an existing specialised rescue, just shows that there is nothing about promoting animal welfare involved in their decision.

I am far too annoyed to go and talk to them and besides which I don't have time. We have 136 rabbits in at the moment! The last time I went in there I offered to sex their rabbits for them only to be told by a stroppy young lad that they had been trained to do it and I should mind my own business. And then, you guessed it, a couple of months later we took in not one but two accidental litters from a pair of 'girls' they sold someone:~ And more since of course. Grrrrrrrrrr.

[Lspacehopper]

Are the 'Rescues' all neutered before you rehome them?
Do you do home-checks?

Janex

As I'm sure you already know Jane, unfortunately we don't. I wish we could, but at the moment it isn't the case.

[Lspacehopper]

P@H is the same as any other chain type of store - you get good examples and bad examples. My local (Huntingdon) is clean, tidy, the animals always look healthy and active and though those in the adoption section don't get much space or privacy, they are always in good health.

I don't doubt there are stores across the country really screwing up but there are also stores with staff who care and do their best.

I don't agree with the P@H policies re: livestock but I don't think its fair to tar all the staff who actually care about the animals with the giant P@H brush.

Thanks for this. Myself and many others do care.

[unalakey]

Snowy.... you couldn't be more wrong. None of our rabbits have been 'old' stock. .


This may not be so in the store you manage, but this is why i originally started this thread, because in my local store there was a rabbit in the adoption that said ' i was originally for sale but no-one wanted me' in effect Fake adoption.

[spider]

In my local store the animals in the adoption scheme are often 'old stock'. I always check on the animals when I'm near by and have reported sick rats, degus and guinea pigs on general sale several times. So I check to see what they've got in the adoption scheme and ask the staff about them all. Mostly they are rats, gerbils, rabbits and GPs that either didn't get on with the others in the general sale cages or more often weren't sold.

Although I admit I have 'adopted' from the scheme. A rat that was returned for fighting with the buyers other rat (she is fine with my girls), a rat that was being sold 'to live alone' because she had just had a litter (was pregnant when she arrived) so they decided she'd like to live a life in solitary! Also, a rat that didn't get on with the others in general sale so was damaged goods I guess and was advertised in the adoption scheme to live alone. Rats should only live alone if all other avenues are exhausted. All of these rats are now living happily with each other and my other rats I might add.

[Lspacehopper]

In my local store the animals in the adoption scheme are often 'old stock'. I always check on the animals when I'm near by and have reported sick rats, degus and guinea pigs on general sale several times. So I check to see what they've got in the adoption scheme and ask the staff about them all. Mostly they are rats, gerbils, rabbits and GPs that either didn't get on with the others in the general sale cages or more often weren't sold.

Although I admit I have 'adopted' from the scheme. A rat that was returned for fighting with the buyers other rat (she is fine with my girls), a rat that was being sold 'to live alone' because she had just had a litter (was pregnant when she arrived) so they decided she'd like to live a life in solitary! Also, a rat that didn't get on with the others in general sale so was damaged goods I guess and was advertised in the adoption scheme to live alone. Rats should only live alone if all other avenues are exhausted. All of these rats are now living happily with each other and my other rats I might add.

I can't comment on the store, but if you were unhappy I hope you passed the comments on to H/O.

Regarding rats, I keep them myself and would never let one go to live by itself unless there was no other option.

We too had a rat that gave birth as she came in pregnant. I took her and one of her daughters and bonded them with my girls.

[Amy & Amber]

The stores all around here are old stock! :cry: :roll:
I hate calling animals stock.
I personally dont like pets at home for other reasons which I wont go into!
xx

[katie7]

This may not be so in the store you manage, but this is why i originally started this thread, because in my local store there was a rabbit in the adoption that said ' i was originally for sale but no-one wanted me' in effect Fake adoption.

My local store doesn't even operate the adoption scheme and everytime i go into the next closest store its the same old 'I WAS ORIGINALLY FOR SALE' story, I am sorry but this is not made up I have never seen a genuine adoption case in that store :(

[Snowy]

My local store doesn't even operate the adoption scheme :(

That's because there aren't any!!

[MopsyMops =]]

I think it depends on the actual shop and management. I went in to one on holiday and it was great ( this was before the adoption ) the bunnies and all the animals had loads of space =) I'm afraid i couldn't say the same for ours :(

Also your shop may not have older animals ( unsold animals ) in the adoption scheme however our local does it blankly said on the strip of paper :?
x

[spider]

I can't comment on the store, but if you were unhappy I hope you passed the comments on to H/O.

Regarding rats, I keep them myself and would never let one go to live by itself unless there was no other option.

We too had a rat that gave birth as she came in pregnant. I took her and one of her daughters and bonded them with my girls.

I appreciate that no two outlets are the same. Its a shame that more people don't have the same approach as you. I just wanted to share my experiences. And yes head office have heard from me and other people I know. They always say that they take complaints seriously and will look into it.

[Lspacehopper]

That's because there aren't any!!

Bill (a REW) and Ted (butterfly marked white), 2 older boys came to us and were fighting and had to be split. They were both yellow from having pee'd on one another all the time they were together. Both have since gone to great homes and I get pictures and updates.

Splodge, a little Netherland dwarf who I 'removed' from someone with severe overgrown incisors. He has gone to a great family with previous dental bun experience. PAH has paid for his two dental operations. His happy pics are up instore. He was featured in the PAH magazine.

Chester, another Netherland dwarf with dental problems, again PAH has paid for 2 operations and he has gone to a great home.

A little lionhead x girl who came to us with a deformed front paw after a break wasn't dealt with when she was young, has gone to a great home with a couple who had a boy, also with a deformed leg. They got a pair from a local rescue centre, but lost the girl after she had to be pts due to a serious problem where she couldn't swallow food.

Mummy and Mummy 2, were two pregnant 'sister' rabbits brought in to us. Both gone to great homes, been spayed and successfully bonded.

Mimi and Snoop....adopted out to a lovely lady who realised that she couldn't deal with them, so they were returned, but have gone to a lovely couple with another bun and they're all getting on great. We received a lovely card with a story written by them.

Jess, a lovely black and white dutch whose owner got fed up with her, has gone to one of the nurses in the vets we use.

Sausage, Egg and Bacon, 3 male rats gone into a massive tower with a young couple who dote on them.

Boycie, a beautiful boy rat with some issues (I was bitten several times when I had him at home with me to look after) has gone to a lovely lady very experienced with rats and loves him warts and all.

There are many more 'real adoptions' and I am proud to have given them a second chance. Please don't try and detract from that.

[elaine]

I must say you sound like one of the good managers we have a store near me one manager is brilliant the other is less than useless

I have tackled my store about the adoption centre and she personally (manager) has assured me she is not accepting less than £20 for a rabbit and £10 for a g/pig now

[MopsyMops =]]

Well i don't think they have that sort of service at our local one :( but that is really good of you to be so invoved :D

[Lucy]

I don't want to be affiliated with Pets at Home. They and other places like them are the cause of the problem with rabbits and other small animals. They have nothing to offer us but they have come up with yet another way to hurt the rabbits in this area by stealing homes from us offered by people that do want to help and do the right thing but who will be given the wrong information all over again and rehome the rabbits to live in small hutches, eat the wrong diet and get the wrong care:(
They also make it easy for bad homes to get hold of a rabbit without even having to pay full retail price, stick it in someones elses reject hutch and neglect it.
People unsuited to owning rabbits who we might have educated out of the idea will now get hold of one without knowing the true costs involved:(

The fact that they started the adoption scheme here, 10 minutes away from an existing specialised rescue, just shows that there is nothing about promoting animal welfare involved in their decision.

I am far too annoyed to go and talk to them and besides which I don't have time. We have 136 rabbits in at the moment! The last time I went in there I offered to sex their rabbits for them only to be told by a stroppy young lad that they had been trained to do it and I should mind my own business. And then, you guessed it, a couple of months later we took in not one but two accidental litters from a pair of 'girls' they sold someone:~ And more since of course. Grrrrrrrrrr.

That gets a round of applause from me! Well said :D

[Gem]

I think you're an exception rather than the rule Space Hopper, sorry I don't know your name :oops:

I know in my local one they are unsold 'stock' but they don't ever say so on the little bit of paper :?

I'm very glad that there are some staff that do care and work hard to get proper adoptions like the ones Space Hopper has outlined :D

[honeybunny]

I am in discussion with my local PAH at present..the 2 people from the store..manager and dept. have been quite helpful :D

so watch this space......

[Tamsin]

I am in discussion with my local PAH at present..the 2 people from the store..manager and dept. have been quite helpful :D

so watch this space......

That's great Jill, do keep us updated. I think if one rescue takes the pludge and can get it working right it will be much easier to do the same thing elsewhere.

[spider]

One good thing about my local store is that they put adverts up by the adoption scheme for cats and dogs looking for homes at a local rescue. The thing is that the small furries at this rescue tend to stay in rescue for a long time. The rescue seem to think that people don't seem to know that they have small furries. So it would be better for them to advertise them really, especially as its in the small furry part of the shop. However, I guess because they stock small furries, that they don't want to take away custom from the store.

I'm hoping to make links with the rescue and post their rabbits on RR for them.

Clare

[taylor v 109]

This is the letter i got.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c116/TAYLORV109/petsathomeletter003.jpg


I have been running a campaign for a while now telling people to not buy animals from Pets At Home, its got a page on my web site.I am lucky and have a very good turn over of rabbits from my rescue and i do think its hurt them in their pocket. Most people that come to me have read it. Pets At Home have heard of my rescue as they have said to the animal samaritons who i work in conjuction that i was not to be involved when they asked them to join their store. They carnt have known that we run in conjuction. So why have they now asked Greenwich Rabbit Rescue to join them?. I have not replyed to this letter yet but when they phoned [before i got the letter] i said i would not until they stopped selling animals. Having had the letter now for a few days i still think im going to decline but will give them my reasons. Deep down i feel that they are only doing this to get rescues off their backs. By joining them it will not change there attitudes to animals and will not get them to stop buying in mass produced rabbits that are unfit to be called pets, and will not get them to train at least one member of staff to know what they are talking about.When ever ive been in there ive got no joy from the manager, they wouldnt even put an add up for my rescue. Its not going to change their way of selling animals. The thought of leaving my rabbits in the store is worrying and theres no way they can check there going to a good home.Also it would be telling everyone that i agree what happens in the store.

[rspcarabbits]

The best tricks are always accomplished with smoke and mirrors with a degree of mis- direction ,and the sound of oooh and aaah,s from the crowd.:shock:

That is unless you know how the trick is done.:rolleyes:

Now it has become apparent this "rescue" rabbit out of the hat trick has been learned by all their budding magicians we simply help supply them with the practice together with our own portion of mis-direction.:)

"Yes sir/ madam you say you bought the rabbits there, well now they are offering to take all their ex bunnies back , its just a case of seeking out the manager, handing over the box and leaving the store. Don't be put off if the manager seems not to know of the scheme just put the rabbits down and leave!":lol:

[honeybunny]

Have to say when i spoke to my local store manager she was very helpful and I truly believe has a soft spot for rabbits ....and the comments below are not aimed at her personally but at the organistion as a whole..

don't know what the outcome will be....and i do think it will differ from store to store for a while until their HQ makes national rules....

Some stores may no longer be buying in stock as the "adoption" buns are going so well
the question is
is this because they care and want to do what's best for the animals.....
...or
is it because they now have a free supply of rabbits....keep rescues off their case and get a pat on the back at the same time?:?

Lets hope it's the first...

I've just noticed my loacl store manager is helping to rehome a bun on the in need section.

[Lucy]

Thats exactly how I feel. By joining their scheme you are saying that you condone what they do in store, and there is no way I could ever do that.

[honeybunny]

yes but surely it depends on what they do in their store?

I'm hoping the manager will take certain things I've said to her bosses and maybe with a couple of changes to their existing system...it could work:?

I doubt PAH will disappear..so surely getting them to change and work with rescues is better than just constantly being at war with them.
As I've said only time will tell...

[rspcarabbits]

Now some large pet shops are apparently becoming fully paid up members of the rabbit re-homing family do they vaccinate even for myxo ? do they pair up? do they have an officail policy of taking rabbits back and most importantly what standards are they re-homing to ?

The gaul of it!, creating a messy problem and then getting kudos from advertising the fact that occaisionally you may clear some of you own mess up and then not be too particular as to what you do with said mess!

And we thought only political parties could generate such spin!

[honeybunny]

I agree and don't want to be seen as supporting PAH out of hand..
but as you know yourself..RSPCA branches have differing reputations..so maybe PAH stores do too?:?

Perhaps ..as in your own organisation..it depends on the staff in that particular store..some will be better than others..

again I would rather PAH just stopped selling animals..and kept out of the rescuing side and chose instead to support local rescues fully....

but "if" pressure and working together can make them go in the right direction.
then that has to be better than how the situation stood 2 years ago :?

[Lspacehopper]

Jill, can you make room in your PM box please.

[honeybunny]

there is space!

[Tamsin]

I agree with you Jill.

A lot of rescues don't have all those policies correct when they start up - perhaps that's another thing you'll be able to help them improve Jill. By sharing your knowledge/experience on how to interview potential rehomers/prepare a rabbit for rehoming you can improve that side of things too.

Tam

[honeybunny]

Just to add I will not be compromising any of my principles "if" i do get involved with my local store

As Tamsin has said..some rescues standards are not in line with others..

many do not neuter..or vacs...or homecheck....and some breed..
I personally have been to 3 rescues which have upset me greatly..one I reported to the RSPCA

We all know PAH are there to make money..but if they can help rescues and stop selling purposely bred animals..and do this in line with decent rescue standards then great.
so I am waiting to hear back from my local store and will reserve judgement on that particular place until then.

[rspcarabbits]

Your quite right rspca branches and other rescue centers do vary wildly in their conditions and it is quite clear branches of certain large pet shops do to.

We do not critisize individual people on here who work there but we do make the following point from our perspective and that I'm sure of a lot of other rspca rescue centers.

WE DO NOT EVER INTENTIONALLY CREATE THE PROBLEM, THEY DO.

I'm sure even without refering to our branch chairwoman she would be horrified if we ever were connected in any way to any buisness such as a pet shop that sold pets.There is a clear conflict of interests here and there is a clear line in the sand we will not cross.

Pet shops ,garden centers and breeders are the problems which we and countless rabbits suffer as a result of.

[honeybunny]

I agree with most of what you're saying..but as I've said..watch this space for details of how my talks with my local store go..
until I've had feedback and /or any official decision made I'm not going to make comment...but again I'll say I would never compromise my beliefs

[elaine]

I work with my local one and she really does care and has taken alot of what I have said on board, most of the time she will send people to me.
Surely if we can only change 1 or 2 stores this is a small improvement.

the other big store near me is to put it mildy absolutley useless and until that manager moves there is not a lot that can be done to sort that one

[Lucy]

But on the flip side Elaine, if you lose this manager you could get a new one like the other manager that won't play ball. What would happen then? It's all too dependant on the personalities of the staff rather than good sound policies and knowledge!

[alexandrahickey]

Hi I work for pets at home and myself and another colleague are in charge of the adoption centre. I do think a lot of you are misguided in your thoughts and if you have any questions I will be happy to answer them for you if I can! Just a quick one on partnering with local rehoming centres we have done that and again any questions feel free to ask x

[Ben's mum]

Hi I work for pets at home and myself and another colleague are in charge of the adoption centre. I do think a lot of you are misguided in your thoughts and if you have any questions I will be happy to answer them for you if I can! Just a quick one on partnering with local rehoming centres we have done that and again any questions feel free to ask x

I don't think people are exactly misguided, they've just had bad experiences in certain branches. I agree it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush (though when I say PAH I mean as a company, rather than all the staff) but it's not to say the bad things don't go on, despite lots of staff who do care and try their best.

[Aimee84]

I just wanna say that the PAH store near me is doing the rehoming scheme I asked the guy there about it and he said that although they don't do home checking as they can't they ask so many questions and check the owners have enough time space and knowledge. The staff there really know there stuff I heard one member of staff say to a lady whose kids wanted a rabbit and guinea pig that they can't live together mentioning all the right things. Then her kid wanted just a rabbit - the staff then told them that they don't lke lots of noise can't be handled roughly, need company, need neutering and vaccinations. She went into everything eventually saying I don't think the rabbit would be the best pet for you and the lady agreed and said no to her kids!
Also I think it is good that they take in unwanted pets - I know they could be taken to another rescue centre but for someone who wants to 'get rid' of their pet they won't be bothered. PAH are everywhere and so its easy for them to take them to a store near by. At least they will get there second chance of a new home. But its better that they go back to the store rather than just being released to fend for themselves!
I realise not all of the stores are as good as others but I do think they are trying to help - at least its a start.
I do agree however that being associated with a rescue centre would be perfect then home checks can be done etc.
Its a difficult one as I don't think they will ever stop selling animals but at least by taking any back where there otherwise unwanted is a good thing.

[davies67]

The store in shrewsbury is fun to go into for toys etc and they now have a rabbit care video on repeat but i feel really sad seeing the animals in there and i consequently would never get one from there as iv had 2 friends whose rabbits both had fits and then died and i was advised when younger to buy two russian hampsters and one ate the other!!the only other hamster i got from there went to sleep after around a year and never woke up :cry: i think it depends wildly on the memeber of staff.

[rspcarabbits]

Maybe we've just been doing this for too long and seen too much of what some large pet shops will do in order to make money and appear palletable to the generally rabbit ignorant public.

Recently we sent a caller who was trying to re-home her rabbit back to the large pet shop where she bought it and lo and behold they took it back and told her after a few days quarantine theywill re-home it.So maybe they are changing their tack and we do accept they all vary.From now on they will get all their by-product re-directed back by us and time will tell

However we will never be accociated with any of them whilst they sell "new" rabbits and are ultimately responsible for them or any other animals being bred in the first place and the resulting problem.

We have had 10yrs of clearing up their mess, 10yrs of watching them sell rabbits often on a whim to clearly unsuitable owners. 10yrs of watching them mis-sex them and sell them with guinea pigs(and thats till quite recently) and 10yrs of them ignoring all pleas and advice offered.

As seen earlier in this thread they want close ties with rescue centers maybe even internet links between sites so that they can be seen to be closely invoved with the re-homing or unfortunate rescue rabbits in the local community.

But they still refuse to co-operate reprociprocally when it comes to slightly reducing their income on the one major issue why we are all here.

Other large pets stores do not feel the need to sell animals and they have our support, so why is it that some others still feel the need to sell them? it now can't be because it would help with the sale of associated items, hutches , runs and food ect because they can obtain "rescue ones" that fill that requirement and get the kudos they come with.

No its simply money, money ,money

When someone states that they feel our thoughts are mis-guided please enlighten me and let them fully explain their position. and p.s thats 3 sets of rabbits that have been re-directed today!

[Denny]

Hi I work for pets at home and myself and another colleague are in charge of the adoption centre. I do think a lot of you are misguided in your thoughts and if you have any questions I will be happy to answer them for you if I can! Just a quick one on partnering with local rehoming centres we have done that and again any questions feel free to ask x

Thats very kind of you to offer to anwer any questions:D I have a few if that is ok:D

1/ Are the rabbits that come in from the public vet checked prior to them going up for rehome?

2/ Are any of the rabbits that come in ever vaccinated or come with vaccination cards?

3/ Do p@h keep records of the previous owners details if applicable?

4/ I know it is early days yet for this scheme but are details taken and kept of the new adoptee's so that records can be taken into account as to whether rabbits coming in up for rehome were originally adopted from p@h or purchased from p@h

5/ Are records kept as to the reason why the rabbit was given up to p@h adoption scheme?

6/ Is there a set minimum donation fee?

7/ Does any of the donations given when adopting one of these buns actually go to help a rabbit rescue themselves? Who does the donation money go to?

8/ I was told that p@h have one breeding base in the uk that distributes the baby buns to all of the uk stores, is this true or does each seperate store use a local breeder for their stock?

[Lucy]

I wouldn't send any rabbits on our waiting list back to p@h if they brought them there, as I couldn't bare to think where they might end up. At least if we deal with them we know they will be neutered and vaccinated and assured a good home.

Oh yes, the misguided comment. That sounds like some jumped up employee who thinks they know it all trying to tell the people who have been doing this for years that they suddenly know better than us. It's definitely not the rescues that are misguided, not at all.

[Tamsin]

Let's keep things civil please :)

[feeling_the_wrath_already]

Some might say that by focusing on the 'politics' of the issue, the bunnies are not going to benefit. However, by putting personal agendas aside, some good may actually come out of it (as has already been shown) and ultimately it is going to be the rabbits that reap the benefits. Though I understand it is a tough one to call - ethics or bunnies, as they are so closely intertwined anyway...

For a start - those who were referring to the scheme as 'competition' - surely the best possible way to tap into that competition is to advertise right at their hub? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, as they say. People will go into a shop to buy a rabbit (as the majority of joe public does decide to do) and they see a noticeboard asking for people to give these other bunnies a second chance, go visit xxx local rescue. Not all of joe public is impulsive and looking for an 'easy' buy. Believe it or not, some are just like you and put the rabbits first. But because they do not roam the wonders of the worldwide web, are not aware rabbit rescues exist - but at the very point at which they were going to purchase a rabbit, they have been educated and they opt to visit the rescue instead. If the animals in the adoption centre are the rescues own, then they will be adopted via the rescue and via the rescues own rules, not through P@H.

The 'misguided' comment I think is certainly relevant, especially with regards to the 'competition' sentiment. It is not set up as 'competition', but if you are involved in the scheme it will actually be your own personal advertising space. It's a bit like you going into Tescos, to find that they are advertising you to go to ASDA instead.

And indeed, ditto, some people are trying to claim they know more about the adoption scheme than we do - even though we are the ones directly involved in it :roll:

For those who disagree with the scheme because the stores sell 'new' rabbits - well, yes, that's fair enough. But since the scheme has been in place, animal sales have dropped. If they keep dropping, maybe head office will decide to pull out of animal sales altogether? It's not going to happen overnight though, I suspect that like any business the shareholders will want evidence that they aren't just going to fall through the floor in terms of profit loss. Which is why I think they are going for this 'slowly slowly' approach. Yes, it annoys me too, but at least they are 'slowly slowly' heading the right way. Thank heavens for small mercies, etc. etc.

Denny - 1-7 = yes (some ifs and buts, with regards to vaccinations, it of course depends on whether the person bringing the rabbit in actually tells you that they have been vaccinated, and indeed, if the member of staff makes a point to ask. Stupid staff = pet peeve). Question 8 - no - lots of different breeders, each one supplies a set number of stores in their region.
I'm sure alexandrahickey will probably elaborate on those answers, i'll keep it short otherwise this will result in an even more epic post :lol:

rspcarabbits - just to nitpick - it's 8 years ;) Not arguing with the rest of it, just saying.

At the end of the day, if you as a rescue don't want to be involved, then fair enough. But i'm glad that there are some who I would consider reputable who are actually giving it a go :) I'm sure they will offer their personal experiences as and when they get them, both positive and negative.

In my opinion, it's far better than all the reputable rescues saying 'no' and then the stores ending up linking with rescues that do not neuter and vaccinate.

[Sugarbunny]

Just thought I'd comment on this as we recently adopted a P@H adoption bunny. There was no set donation although the assistant was very open about the fact that she won't let the animals go for 'a pittance'. We donated £30, which was more than the rabbits on sale were going for. She also said that the money does not go to P@H, but to local rescues. We had to fill in and sign a form about the adoption and it said that we would agree to have her neutered within 6 months of getting her. They did seem a bit vague about whether or not she had been vaccinated, so they could do a better job of finding out things like this. The assistant was also honest about the fact she had been returned due to behaviour problems, and asked straight away before anything whether we had kids, as she would not be happy about this. I think the stores vary greatly in their policy.

[alexandrahickey]

Thats very kind of you to offer to anwer any questions:D I have a few if that is ok:D

1/ Are the rabbits that come in from the public vet checked prior to them going up for rehome?

2/ Are any of the rabbits that come in ever vaccinated or come with vaccination cards?

3/ Do p@h keep records of the previous owners details if applicable?

4/ I know it is early days yet for this scheme but are details taken and kept of the new adoptee's so that records can be taken into account as to whether rabbits coming in up for rehome were originally adopted from p@h or purchased from p@h

5/ Are records kept as to the reason why the rabbit was given up to p@h adoption scheme?

6/ Is there a set minimum donation fee?

7/ Does any of the donations given when adopting one of these buns actually go to help a rabbit rescue themselves? Who does the donation money go to?

8/ I was told that p@h have one breeding base in the uk that distributes the baby buns to all of the uk stores, is this true or does each seperate store use a local breeder for their stock?

Ok I'll answer what I can within my knowledge!
1. ALL animals taken in our health checked by our staff. That is eyes. teeth, ears. coat,claws, bottom and genetalia i.e everything. If there is something wrong with one of them or if we are unsure we will book them into the vets. Today infact I bookd in a g.pig for tomorrow as he has a weeping eye and a claw which is growing backwards.
2. We do ask if the animal is vaccinated, neutered etc so we can pass this info onto the new owners
3. All previous owners details are kept on record in a file as it is a legal document of transferring ownership to us. We are not allowed to let new owners see this because of data protection.
4. Again all the details of adoptees are kept on record as it is again a legal document. We usually know when it is an animal being returned from adoption as we do get to know the animals we deal with on a daily basis. This has only happened once.
5. The records of why the animal was up for adoption is on the same as the details of the previous owner.
6. There is no set donation fee as it is a donation. We are allowed to refuse adoption if we dont feel the amount is suitable. If you can only pay £5 for a rabbit then how can you afford your myxi jabs, neutering and the general maintaince costs of owning a rabbit. We generally say aroubd 10-£15 is deemed a suitable amount and all the money goes to charity.
7. I'm unsure if the money from our store goes to a rabbit rescue as there isnt one in our area that Im aware of however it goes to local rehoming charities.
8. This is false. There are separate breeders for separate regions.
Hope that helps! x

[alexandrahickey]

Maybe we've just been doing this for too long and seen too much of what some large pet shops will do in order to make money and appear palletable to the generally rabbit ignorant public.

Recently we sent a caller who was trying to re-home her rabbit back to the large pet shop where she bought it and lo and behold they took it back and told her after a few days quarantine theywill re-home it.So maybe they are changing their tack and we do accept they all vary.From now on they will get all their by-product re-directed back by us and time will tell

However we will never be accociated with any of them whilst they sell "new" rabbits and are ultimately responsible for them or any other animals being bred in the first place and the resulting problem.

We have had 10yrs of clearing up their mess, 10yrs of watching them sell rabbits often on a whim to clearly unsuitable owners. 10yrs of watching them mis-sex them and sell them with guinea pigs(and thats till quite recently) and 10yrs of them ignoring all pleas and advice offered.

As seen earlier in this thread they want close ties with rescue centers maybe even internet links between sites so that they can be seen to be closely invoved with the re-homing or unfortunate rescue rabbits in the local community.

But they still refuse to co-operate reprociprocally when it comes to slightly reducing their income on the one major issue why we are all here.

Other large pets stores do not feel the need to sell animals and they have our support, so why is it that some others still feel the need to sell them? it now can't be because it would help with the sale of associated items, hutches , runs and food ect because they can obtain "rescue ones" that fill that requirement and get the kudos they come with.

No its simply money, money ,money

When someone states that they feel our thoughts are mis-guided please enlighten me and let them fully explain their position. and p.s thats 3 sets of rabbits that have been re-directed today!

Ok I'll admit I have only been with the company for a year and so I cannot comment on your 10 year mess as you like to call it. However in the year I've been there I cannot say that the welfare of the animals has not been paramount. I would not work there if it wasnt!! I support a lot of animal charities and it would be the height of hypocricy to give money to stop animal cruelty and then allow it to go on under my nose! Again I cannot speak for every store but in the 2 I have worked and of the ones I have visited I cannot say I have been faced with any scenes of neglet or ill treatment.
I never have and never will sell a rabbit with a guinea pig. Before I even get into the pen to get the rabbit to look at I ask them what hutch they have. I then get them to show me in relation the ones we sell. I do not lead them in any way I simply ask the size of the hutch. In the past week alone I have turned away 9 customers because of the hutch they had or were going to buy so I can assure you my concern lies with the animal and not the profits. From what I've been told a rabbit needs 6 foot of space. It needs to be able to lie down stretched right out and still have plenty of room and stand on its hind legs again with plenty of room. The ONLY 2 hutches I will allow people to take a rabbit with are Lavender lodge and Thistle Hall both of which have been approved by the RWA. I also say that they will need a run with this.I will not allow them to go any smaller. I have had numerous complaints to head office over this but I dont care because I know they back me. I will also not sell them a rabbit between october and april that will be housed outside.
When selling two rabbits together I advise a neutered male and female to be the best pairing and advise to avoid two females. The rabbits are also to be kept apart until neutered.
For feeing I say plenty of hay ratio of hay:nuggets is size of body:size of head. Nuggets over muesli as selective eaters and plenty of veg. No food for first 24 hours just loads of hay and fresh water to avoid getting bloat. There is so much conflicting advice out there that its hard to distinguish fact from fiction.
As for mis-sexing even vets get it wrong and they've been trained for 5 years! Even though I'm supposed to I will never guarantee the sex of an animal as I can never be 100% sure.

I do not wish to argue over it I was just simply annoyed at some comments made by people who were slating the adoption centre when it has infact made the company a loss. I would not be working in a pet shop doing a job I could do elsewhere for more money if I didnt love animals and so its offensive when people imply I do not do my job properly that I am merely after money.

[Tamsin]

I would not be working in a pet shop doing a job I could do elsewhere for more money if I didnt love animals and so its offensive when people imply I do not do my job properly that I am merely after money.

It sounds like you are just the sort of staff member that pet shops need. You obviously know your stuff so you're in a great position to educate others. If all pet store staff had the same attitude as you I'm sure there would be a lot less complaints :) Keep up the good work!

[alexandrahickey]

Hi I work for pets at home and myself and another colleague are in charge of the adoption centre. I've just re read this and I'm not actually in charge of the whole scheme as it sounds like just the adoption centre in our store. I'm assistant manager and I've been placed in charge of all small animals. So any knowledge you can give me will be greatly appreciated. I am trying to read up on things in books and on the net but no two things say the same!x

[Tamsin]

The RWA is a good source of reliable information: http://www.rabbitwelfare.co.uk

And this is a good reference point for finding articles/info: http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/rabrefs.html

[rspcarabbits]

Just to nit pick, feeling the wrath already,you understand, if you bother to re-read all my comments you will see I never name anybody or any other organisation in any thread, I,ve got more legal common sense than that and I was refering to the period of time we have been re-homing rabbits and dealt with the mess, mess, mess created by all pet shops amongst others.But if the cap fits for 8 years , you can wear it!

On the subject of loyal pet shop employees demonstrating their combined knowledge of rabbit care on these pages, its really comforting to see and I am glad.

However let me make it plain and easy for you all to understand . The best any pet shop will ever get from us , and I supect that of most other rescues in these pages is respect....... if and only if they clear up every last lump of mess they create and do it in a manner that is responsible, ethical , does not involve suffering and is within the law.At the present time all some have done in our eyes is acknowledge there is a smell!

Whilst pet shops still sell rabbits and are reponsible for their breeding, transportation, display and stress you will never get our support and we will not allow ourselves personally to be associated with you.

Just a footnote ,We personally have never re-homed any rabbit and got its sex wrong or been responsible for any subsequent litters, but as I'm sure you realise there is a good reason for that!

We also did not have a single case reported to us of any of our rabbits dying as a result of full blown myxo last year, but as I'm sure you realise there is a good reason for that!

We also also did not have a single case reported to us of any of our rabbits dying of hvd, but as I'm sure you realise there is a good reason for that too!

And finally thank you for all your comments confirming to anybody out there in any doubt...... its all about profit, loss , shareholders and making money , money , money.

Not one of you has claimed any pet shop that sells rabbits is there primarily for animal welfare and its that which sets us apart.

[Lucy]

Ok I'll admit I have only been with the company for a year and so I cannot comment on your 10 year mess as you like to call it. However in the year I've been there I cannot say that the welfare of the animals has not been paramount. I would not work there if it wasnt!! I support a lot of animal charities and it would be the height of hypocricy to give money to stop animal cruelty and then allow it to go on under my nose! Again I cannot speak for every store but in the 2 I have worked and of the ones I have visited I cannot say I have been faced with any scenes of neglet or ill treatment.
I never have and never will sell a rabbit with a guinea pig. Before I even get into the pen to get the rabbit to look at I ask them what hutch they have. I then get them to show me in relation the ones we sell. I do not lead them in any way I simply ask the size of the hutch. In the past week alone I have turned away 9 customers because of the hutch they had or were going to buy so I can assure you my concern lies with the animal and not the profits. From what I've been told a rabbit needs 6 foot of space. It needs to be able to lie down stretched right out and still have plenty of room and stand on its hind legs again with plenty of room. The ONLY 2 hutches I will allow people to take a rabbit with are Lavender lodge and Thistle Hall both of which have been approved by the RWA. I also say that they will need a run with this.I will not allow them to go any smaller. I have had numerous complaints to head office over this but I dont care because I know they back me. I will also not sell them a rabbit between october and april that will be housed outside.
When selling two rabbits together I advise a neutered male and female to be the best pairing and advise to avoid two females. The rabbits are also to be kept apart until neutered.
For feeing I say plenty of hay ratio of hay:nuggets is size of body:size of head. Nuggets over muesli as selective eaters and plenty of veg. No food for first 24 hours just loads of hay and fresh water to avoid getting bloat. There is so much conflicting advice out there that its hard to distinguish fact from fiction.
As for mis-sexing even vets get it wrong and they've been trained for 5 years! Even though I'm supposed to I will never guarantee the sex of an animal as I can never be 100% sure.

I do not wish to argue over it I was just simply annoyed at some comments made by people who were slating the adoption centre when it has infact made the company a loss. I would not be working in a pet shop doing a job I could do elsewhere for more money if I didnt love animals and so its offensive when people imply I do not do my job properly that I am merely after money.

No matter what you do, you are still selling animals without home checks (and yes, people do lie to get an animal as we find out when we DO homevisits), you are not making sure people can afford vet bills should something happen, you are not having each animal vet checked, you are not vaccinating, you are not doing any follow ups to see if the animal has been neutered or is being used to breed from. It's not good enough for this modern society where it is possible to do so, as charities like us have been doing for years. The adoption centre does not work the way we work, therefore will always be seen as substandard to me. If you can't do something properly, you shouldn't be doing it at all in my opinion. Therefore, they should stop selling animals FULL STOP.

[Tamsin]

I wonder if anyone's familiar with the concept of positive reinforcement? That's when you reward good behaviour to encourage more of it in the future.

So when a person does something to make a positive change you acknowledge it and say well done instead of listing all their failings and telling them what they've tried isn't good enough. That way they are encouraged to continue to try and improve and don't just think - what's the point, we're going to get yelled at either way might as well take the easy route and do nothing.

I applaud people like the P@H staff who have posted here (despite the negative comments they face) they are obviously interested in making positive steps forward and are using their own time and initiative to do it. Likewise with others who are working towards making changes instead of just complaining about how things are done.

Yes, there are many things I agree are unacceptable but each tiny step in the right direction is still a step forward. Moaning and wishing isn't going to change things instantly. It's going to be slow and frustrating slog but at least there are people willing to help it along the way.

Tamsin

[alexandrahickey]

Not one of you has claimed any pet shop that sells rabbits is there primarily for animal welfare and its that which sets us apart.
That would be why on the horse and hound forums the RSPCA comes under a thread titled 'animal welfare???' would it.

The only with myxo was brought in by a customer for our adoption centre which we took one look at said its got myxo and took it straight to the vet who said to put it down. We didnt send it out with it.
'I still hold by my view that the activities of the RSPCA are only as good as the Inspector you are dealing with at the time, some may be bad, inefficient or otherwise failing' http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/2727897/page/0/vc/1

So see its not nice to be accused of doing things you're not actually doing. I imagine you are not one of the incompetant inspectors the people on there have mentioned and that you are out for the Welfare of the animal else you wouldnt be on a forum for the welfare of rabbits.

And as for Lucyhp I am not some jumped up employee far from it. And I never mentioned that I knew better than you. I merely stated that some people on the forum had mis guided views on what our adoption centre was about and I just wanted to clear it up for people who were genuinely interested/curious.

[alexandrahickey]

Although this post is completely irrelevant to the title of the group I just wish to reply to Lucyhp who seems insistant on criticising the way I do my job.
I got a kitten from the RSPCA (I wont say which one but has had a lot of bad press from what ive read) 13 years ago now around october time so he'll have been one of the poor litters given to you or found dumped at the end of 'kitten season'. We NEVER had a home visit. He WASN'T vaccinated but then that may have been because they need to be a certain age same as pups. And we have most definitely NOT had any follow ups to check if he has been neutered or if we have bred from him. He has been vacciated, chipped and most importantly neutered ,as has my other baby boy, because I for one cannot stand kitten season. Irresponsible people who get kittens and then dont get them neutered are the reason that kitten season perpetuates in the way it does.
So I guess somehow I just slipped through the net and you were lucky in that I look after my animals properly. So in your opinion you shouldnt be rehoming animals either as 'if you cant do something properly you shouldnt be doing it at all'.Of all the things you say youre supposed to do not one of them got done when I adopted Ollie puss. I guess things have changed in 13 years though you're learning from mistakes etc.
Well so are we but things take time and as a mere assiatant manager I doubt I'm going to be able to bring the change any quicker so all I can do is ensure that I equip the customer with the knowledge needed and make sure a home is purchased large enough for the animal to live comfortably in and keep the animals welfare at the forefront of everything I do.
So as Tamsin has pointed out stop criticising what I dont do and appreciate that I care enough to stick around to make sure the animals get the best whilst in store and hopefully once out of store. As mentioned previously I could be on a lot more money than what I'm on there with much more sociable hours in a smaller store.

[rspcarabbits]

I'm sorry I have not got the feintest what point you are making alexandrahickey. You're going to have to spell it out to me and how it relates directly to us and the position we are in and the reasoned stance we take with rabbits and their welfare.

But before you do please read all the past entries we have made and you will have a good idea of who we are , what we do and what our relationship with the rspca is.

You will also note all the entries I have given to date have been of a non personal non specific nature and just state our position and are within the rules of this forum, however if I perceive we are being personally slated in any way or linked to any other rspca issue of which we could have absolutley no connection , I do reserve the right to reply accordingly and report the matter to the administrator.

[SOAD]

Ok guys, I please must ask you to step away from the thread and take half an hour to calm down, while I am well aware you've strong feelings, the thread is taking a nosedive.

It would be a shame to lock it at this point as there is good points on each side, but I feel it's getting a bit personal and we can't allow that to continue. Please can we be a bit more polite to our fellow board members :D

[rspcarabbits]

Thanks for that soad, bye bye on this one.

[Tamsin]

yep, sounds good :)

[alexandrahickey]

The point I was making is that you as a charity are also slated even though you do outstanding work in the world of animal welfare. I have not and never will say otherwise. I was just pointing out that in other forums the question of RSPCA and their animal welfare is brought up which must annoy you that you get tarred with the same brush because other branches in your charity let you down. That is what you were doing to us.
Not once did I mention that as a company we wished to be associated with the RSPCA you just came right on in there and said you'd never do it even though we hadnt asked.
Believe me I am trying to change things in my store regarding animals. I only originally came on here for more info on rabbits and just happened to see peoples comments on our adopion centre I just wanted to clear up any misconceptions people may have had thats all. I understand it is not and will not ever be en par with the RSPCA but surely offering the facility is not such a heinous crime as you make out. We have rehomed a lot of rabbits which may otherwise have been left neglected and suffering. I'm not saying were heroes or anything like you and your volunteers but we're trying to help. In my area there arent any rehoming charities less than 45-1 hr away and a lot of the people who bring their animals in would never drive that far to rehome their animal judging by the state that some of them are brought in. I just like to think that we have saved a few animals from unnecessary suffering which can't be a bad thing.
I apologise if you feel I was personally attacking you as I wasnt. I replied to Lucyhp who did personally attack me with the response about my cat as she went on about us not doing things properly when it appears thing werent done properly with me. Like I said it was 13 years ago and no doubt things have changed.
It is not me you need to be attacking and persuading its the general public who demand younger animals.Unfortunately for as long as there is a demand someone will always supply and we are not the only people that do.
Although you do not wish to partner with us other charities have done and I will suggest that maybe they could home visit for us. The pah adoption charity is from what I gather in the process of making vouchers for neutering its just a lengthy process in contacting all the vets to see if theyd be prepared to take them.
So things are changing and hopefully in the future we wont sell animals we will just have an adoption centre which will be partnered with local rehoming centres. We can house animals in the centre which are brought in to us and our partnered charity and they could home visit. We'll produce vouchers for neutering if the animal isnt old enough or get them neutered ourselves if they are.
Things are gonna take time but they are changing slowly but surely. All I ask is that in the meantime until things have changed you dont have a go at people who are trying to do their best in the present situation.

[Lucy]

Although this post is completely irrelevant to the title of the group I just wish to reply to Lucyhp who seems insistant on criticising the way I do my job.
I got a kitten from the RSPCA (I wont say which one but has had a lot of bad press from what ive read) 13 years ago now around october time so he'll have been one of the poor litters given to you or found dumped at the end of 'kitten season'. We NEVER had a home visit. He WASN'T vaccinated but then that may have been because they need to be a certain age same as pups. And we have most definitely NOT had any follow ups to check if he has been neutered or if we have bred from him. He has been vacciated, chipped and most importantly neutered ,as has my other baby boy, because I for one cannot stand kitten season. Irresponsible people who get kittens and then dont get them neutered are the reason that kitten season perpetuates in the way it does.
So I guess somehow I just slipped through the net and you were lucky in that I look after my animals properly. So in your opinion you shouldnt be rehoming animals either as 'if you cant do something properly you shouldnt be doing it at all'.Of all the things you say youre supposed to do not one of them got done when I adopted Ollie puss. I guess things have changed in 13 years though you're learning from mistakes etc.
Well so are we but things take time and as a mere assiatant manager I doubt I'm going to be able to bring the change any quicker so all I can do is ensure that I equip the customer with the knowledge needed and make sure a home is purchased large enough for the animal to live comfortably in and keep the animals welfare at the forefront of everything I do.
So as Tamsin has pointed out stop criticising what I dont do and appreciate that I care enough to stick around to make sure the animals get the best whilst in store and hopefully once out of store. As mentioned previously I could be on a lot more money than what I'm on there with much more sociable hours in a smaller store.

What happened 13 years ago would have little bearing on what would happen now so that completely pointless to bring it up. I will continue to criticise P@H as long as they sell animals in the manner they do, and won't have my opinions changed because some stores may possibly employ by chance someone that knows something about animals. It's not the same in every store and it's a major cause of animals being rehomed in the first place.

[sally1974]

I wonder if anyone's familiar with the concept of positive reinforcement? That's when you reward good behaviour to encourage more of it in the future.

So when a person does something to make a positive change you acknowledge it and say well done instead of listing all their failings and telling them what they've tried isn't good enough. That way they are encouraged to continue to try and improve and don't just think - what's the point, we're going to get yelled at either way might as well take the easy route and do nothing.

I applaud people like the P@H staff who have posted here (despite the negative comments they face) they are obviously interested in making positive steps forward and are using their own time and initiative to do it. Likewise with others who are working towards making changes instead of just complaining about how things are done.

Yes, there are many things I agree are unacceptable but each tiny step in the right direction is still a step forward. Moaning and wishing isn't going to change things instantly. It's going to be slow and frustrating slog but at least there are people willing to help it along the way.

Tamsin

completely agree Tamsin

[Jack's-Jane]

What happened 13 years ago would have little bearing on what would happen now so that completely pointless to bring it up. I will continue to criticise P@H as long as they sell animals in the manner they do, and won't have my opinions changed because some stores may possibly employ by chance someone that knows something about animals. It's not the same in every store and it's a major cause of animals being rehomed in the first place.

Playing devils advocate here but when me or others complain about the RSPCA we are told how its unfare on many local branches who are doing great work. From an outsiders point of view its like saying P@H can be critisised and that critisism applies to everyone in the company regardless of the individual persons attempts to improve things for the Rabbits, but the RSPCA as a whole cant be critisised without every local branch taking offence

:?

I make no secret about my feelings about Pet Shops. No animals should be sold from a retail outlet. But until that happens surely its better to encourage those on the retail frontline to educate the public about the care of the Pet they purchase. Yelling at someone just because you dont like the company they work for seems somewhat counter-productive, especially when that person is in a position to influence how the message re Rabbit Welfare is put across.

I have noticed a vast improvement in my local branch of P@H since a new manager took over. As yet they are not involved in the adoption scheme so I cant comment on that. But the general care of the animals has improved, as has staff training.

As I said before, no animal should be on sale in a shop. But as things currently stand surely working with those in a position to improve things is better than alienating them

Janex

[Lucy]

Rescues are not money making from animals, pet shops are. Rescues cannot really be compared in this situation as motives are totally different. Our branches already have in place rules regarding neutering, vaccination and home checking, if an error occurs, it's human error, not because the correct rules are not in place. The same cannot be said for the pet shops can it, they don't rehome to those standards, they are trying to get rescues to do it for them rather than be responsible for their own schemes. Yes RSPCA branches differ and I have also heard some horror stories, but how many are they in relation to what goes on everyday? A tiny percentage is the answer, as unfortunately nothing is perfect.

My answer to why rescues should not associate is simply guilty by association. By all means advise them, but not make a direct link as you are then party to what they do in store which you may not agree with.

[Jack's-Jane]

But taking the financial profit aspect out of the equation then the RSPCA and a Pet Shop can be compared in that they both, I assume, have codes of practice dictated from Head Office. It is the responsibility of the individual Manager to insure these codes of practice are adhered to. For example some RSPCA Branches home-check, some dont. Some fully vaccinate, some dont. Some only neuter Bucks, some neuter both Bucks and Does. So even if codes of *best* practice are set out by HO they are not much use if not applied by *all* branches of the RSPCA.
P@H Branches appear to be more closely monitored by H/O. That came as a surprise to me I can assure you!! My complaints to H/O about my local branch were acted on immediately and changes implemented by the stores new manager.

I guess what I am trying to say is that until the day dawns when no animals can be sold then I cannot see how cutting off all contact with Pet Shops can help improve the education of the public re Rabbit Welfare. And that is something that both P@H and the RSPCA should be striving to achieve.

I had better sign off now before anyone thinks I've morphed into a P@H fan!!

:lol:

Janex :wave:

[Tamsin]

Very eloquently put Jane :)

I can see there could be concerns over linking with an organisation and the 'guilt by association' factor. There must be ways this can be addressed, minimised though.

In the states the partnerships have very strict guidance/agreements set between the rescue/petshop. So in