overgrown tooth roots or maybe snuffles

Hi - sorry long post, but need some advice

my bunny has had weepy eyes ever since I got him (over 6 month ago). First vet said it was probably a dust allergy and gave us some steroids which didnt work. I have been feeding them on dust-free hay ever since. Second vet was much more rabbit savvy. Said there were lots of things it might be - overgrown tooth roots, snuffles or something else.

He said diagnosis would be difficult and quite invasive, so at the time we agreed to leave it for a while as Merry is otherwise healthy, but quite timid and I didnt want to stress him out. The Vet said I could try him on the anti- bacterial eye drops I was giving Pippin at the time (cos the silly bunny scratched his eye).

I think the eye drops may have helped - the vet thought the liquid from his eyes was a bit white but I think it's clear now. It's quite difficult to tell cos his brothers lick his eyes for him and sometimes they look completely normal.

Anyway, now his eyes are still weepy. I'm quite convinced it cant be an allergy because it's winter and there's no pollen, and the hay is dust free. I've also been reading up about sedating rabbits and am not so scared of it now.

So (finally) my question is, what would be the best course of action from here on?
Should I ask the vet to x-ray his teeth first? If it is the roots, would the best thing be to have them taken out? How long does it take for a rabbit to recover from this (should I do it before or after I take them to Coventry for Christmas?)
Or would it be better to ask for a culture first? I've heard that this doesnt always give accurate information though. Or should I just ask to have him put on some antibiotics like Baytril?
Or am I being a big hypochondriac? I have spent the afternoon worrying if frodo has head tilt but have now decided that it's just the shape of his face . I'm putting them all on panacur anyway.

You say that the antibiotic eye drops you tried on him helped so that suggests there may be infection. Has the Vet attempted to flush the nasolacrimal ducts ? Has Vet run a dye through them to see if they are draining ?
Sometimes a plug of pus can block the ducts. Once that is cleared and abx/anti-inflammatory eye drops are given the problem resolves.
If it doesn't then a skull Xray would help establish if any tooth root elongation is involved. But to start with I'd ask Vet to attempt to flush the ducts/ see if they are draining and prescribe an appropriate topical treatment (I have found Tiacil to be effective)

Janex

thanks - I'm not sure he mentioned that. He talked me through a whole load of scary sounding treatments and it freaked me out a bit to be honest. I'll ask him to try the flushing thing first.

Snuffles can be caused by overgrown tooth roots - my Santa has this problem. As it's her molars (back teeth) causing the problem they can't be extracted so we are just managing it as best we can. Incisors can sometimes be removed if a vet thinks it appropriate and most buns tend to recover ok from this, they just need veg etc. grated and chopped for them.

Personally I don't place a lot of value on swabs, it can be really difficult to get a sample with active bacteria in it (mostly the puss from the nostrils is dead bacteria) so it might not tell you a lot, there are a number of different antibiotics commonly used on snuffles and to a certain extent with mine it has been trial and error to find the one that works best.

I'd agree with Jane though - try the flushing first and then see after that. My preference would be the x-ray before a swab, as I said before, teeth can be a cause of snuffles so a swab alone wouldn't be enough to rule out a dental problem. If your bun is generally healthy the sedatives/anaesthetics used are really pretty safe.

What combination of eye drops and oral antibiotics has he been tried on?

Tiacil is ineffective against some bacteria which a combination of Fucithalmic and oral baytril can kill. If this has been tried to no avail my next step would be a GENTLE tear duct flush. By gentle I mean without the vet forcing the liquid through. Often this ruptures the duct and the 'blockage' which flod from the eyes and nose is actually the result of the duct rupturing. A ruptured duct will heal with scar tissue narrowing it and causing more problems. Flushing, even when performed correctly, can widen the ducts making it easier for debris to become trapped.

If money was no object I would opt for skull X-rays to check tooth roots before before duct flushing.

I assume the rabbit is showing no other signs of Pasteurella?

Sooz22 said:

What combination of eye drops and oral antibiotics has he been tried on?

Tiacil is ineffective against some bacteria which a combination of Fucithalmic and oral baytril can kill. If this has been tried to no avail my next step would be a GENTLE tear duct flush. By gentle I mean without the vet forcing the liquid through. Often this ruptures the duct and the 'blockage' which flod from the eyes and nose is actually the result of the duct rupturing. A ruptured duct will heal with scar tissue narrowing it and causing more problems. Flushing, even when performed correctly, can widen the ducts making it easier for debris to become trapped.

If money was no object I would opt for skull X-rays to check tooth roots before before duct flushing.

I assume the rabbit is showing no other signs of Pasteurella?

Click to expand...

If the nasolacrimal duct is full of pus it is relatively easy to clear it Gentle external massage of the base of the duct can produce the offending pus-plug. I agree that if a canular is needed then the Rabbit should be anaethetised This would enable a Skull X-ray to be done at the same time


Click on where it says 'Full Screen'-top right of page here :

http://books.google.com/books?id=xT...ts=DJU2ZaQ1ho&sig=Qs2uko40n0p37sHfWeTVas0lmgs



Janex :wave:

Jack's-Jane said:

If the nasolacrimal duct is full of pus it is relatively easy to clear it Gentle external massage of the base of the duct can produce the offending pus-plug. I agree that if a canular is needed then the Rabbit should be anaethetised This would enable a Skull X-ray to be done at the same time


Click on where it says 'Full Screen'-top right of page here :

http://books.google.com/books?id=xT...ts=DJU2ZaQ1ho&sig=Qs2uko40n0p37sHfWeTVas0lmgs



Janex :wave:

Click to expand...

Thanks Jane.

I am very against duct flushing unless it can be proved to be beneficial...one of my past rabbits had nasty scar tissue develop due to a vet who was a bit happy go lucky with his flushing technique :roll: I personally think vets are to quick to go down this root without exploring other possibilities first.

Hi,

Yes Merry is very healthy - good weight, active, eats fine. In fact today his eyes are barely watering! I'm never sure if this is because his brothers have been cleaning him up or because it's getting better.

Tiacil was the last antibiotic he had. Money is tight but I'd rather sort it out early than wait for it to get worse. I've just cancelled their insurance cos it excluded anything to do with his eyes - so that made it pretty worthless really. But I can put that money towards treatment. My main worry is spending a lot of money and actually doing more harm than good.

I will ask for an x-ray then, and maybe some antibiotics too. I'll see what he says about flushing and whether he can do it gently.

Here is a picture today - sorry it's from my phone.