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Kezza30
12-12-2007, 07:57 PM
I know how important it is for outdoor buns to have a partner for company, was wondering now Liqorice is a house bun if people think it's jsut an importnat to keep them in apirs or rather depending on the amount of time spent with them.

Also do people think this cage is big enough for 2 small buns (nethies, small lops) who get alot of out time. I've been told i'm not aloud a bigger cage sapce wise for my indoor bun so i'm looking at extra floors, either the2 or 3 floor one with plenty out time:)

http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/rodents/cages/rabbit_cage/13324

Crystal butterfly
12-12-2007, 08:19 PM
i personally believe rabbits can live quite happily as a single house rabbit as they will be getting to see you alot more then what an outdoor rabbit would, people will probably advise getting a 48" dog crate for 2 indoor rabbits to live in :) their quite cheap got mine for about £35 from ebay its just a tad heavy to carry :oops: took me the whole of 30 minutes to get it up my stairs :oops: lol

Vikki*and*the*buns
12-12-2007, 08:58 PM
HI Kezz:wave:

was wondering the same thing about baby, should I get her a husbun or not? shes currently in a cage that is almost like lickys. but mum as said no upgrade so far:cry: but she gets 10 + hours out per day. personlly I think as long as they are happy single they could stay single, but I know many advice differently;)

SarahP
12-12-2007, 09:02 PM
Personally I think it depends on the personality of the rabbit, and how much time you are able to spend with them.

When I lose one of mine, I really don't think I will be getting a new friend for who is left behind, so will hope that they are OK as a lone housebun. :(

Kezza30
12-12-2007, 10:29 PM
i can spend lots of time with him now and he's only 10 weeks ayway so to young for a friend yet. I was thinking more down the road i have my fingers crossed about getting accepted to work with elderly i've een told hours can be long an unpredictable so i won't have much time to play with him and was thinking a bunny friend who i've convinced mum we could rescue a girlie in the future would be better for him.

Problem is i'm not aloud to upgrade my 3ft cage he has floor wise but could either get the 2 floor or 3 floor 3ft one from zoo plus and give them out time in the summer aslong as someones in the house to keep an eye on them of course.

I'm not sure if those zoo plus cages are acceptble i'd hate to spend all that money and there not, lol:?

Jayms_fallen_angel
12-12-2007, 10:43 PM
We use those things for guinae pigs.

A house bun can live alone yes, as they getto see you a lotmore than outdoors ones. BUT my main concern with this is they have no one to talk to. Could youlive alone, seeing no one but a bunny allday? It'smypersonal opinion that all animals should have another of their species to talk to if they are sociable animals.

The cage you're looking at is probably only big enough for a base, not to actually keep them in.

emilyarc
12-12-2007, 10:47 PM
I always think, if possible it is best to have a pair of buns, no matter whether they are in or out.
As they will have each other 24hrs a day, they are the same species and also they can snuggle, play and love each other constanly!!! Also it is recommended that bunnies are always kept in pairs as they like to have a companion.
Obviously if you cannot have another bun it is good you have it indoors and spend time with it, but if there is a chance of rescuing another bun (so both single buns with then have a friend), then why not!!!

elve
12-12-2007, 10:50 PM
I don't think that cage is big enough unless it's open all day, in which case you'd be better getting a 3 foot dog crate - but that's only big enough for one rabbit in any case - definitely not 2, even nethies! Nethies are only small but they have tons of energy and love to run about :)

I think single bunnies are perfectly happy with human company - I've got 2 singles outside living as neighbours and they seem very contented too. Main thing rabbits like is routine, exercise and good food - with some toys thrown in :)

Franny_cky
12-12-2007, 10:55 PM
I had a single house bun and decided to get him a little girlfriend. It was the best thing i could have done, even though they're in my bedroom and i'm with them loads its nice to know they always have one another. They cuddle in together and groom each other. Its lovely to know that they arn't lonley. would definatley recommend trying bonding!! Not all Buns want company though! some do prefer there own company, so it would be good to find out!

Kezza30
12-12-2007, 11:33 PM
Thankyou for the opinions, my main concern is if i got accepted to work with eldrely im told it's no 9-5 job and i'd hate for him to feel left out. The cage isn' left open all day for one h's not litter trained and my dad would go mental and two he can't move on the laminate flooring yet without doing the splits:roll: he does hvae time in an 8ft run not much right now because of the cold weather or runs about my bedroom when i'm there.

I do feel sorry for him as you can hear the little fella palying with his toys early in the morning when i'm trying to sleep and i think it would be nice for him to have someone to play with when i'm sleeping, busy, not there etccos i don't want him to feel alone:(

How big is a good size for 2 small breeds for a base or time they can't come out i don't have a very big bedroom so i'll need to rearrange things i am still trying to convince my mum to let me add a playpen around the base cage for him bhut i think i'm pushing that abit, will go measure my free space.

Cage size recomendations welcome for a base :wave:

Jayms_fallen_angel
13-12-2007, 12:08 AM
I have a 4ft base, but it's open all day my sister warned me never to reveal this as a 4ft cage is apparently the smallest cage a bun should ever have and I'd be shouted at for such a small cage. *looks shifty*

I can't recomend a size for youthough I'm afraid. I'm terrible at it. I hope someone else can.

And yes, if you're starting work I'd deffinatly get another bun for him as company...providing he will bond.

becks
13-12-2007, 12:19 AM
I have a 4ft base, but it's open all day my sister warned me never to reveal this as a 4ft cage is apparently the smallest cage a bun should ever have and I'd be shouted at for such a small cage. *looks shifty*



mine are outdoor buns, and i have a 4' base too, but it is wide, and has two levels to it (its the thistle hall which is recommended by th rwa), and i also have a run permenantly attached to it.

mine hutch passed a hoemcheck when i adopted a second bun (once i'd attached teh run that was). my two however will soon eb moving into a converted shed...once i convert it.

as for housebuns, sam was a singel housebun originally, then after three months i adopted domino, and you shoudl ofs een teh change in her, despite having to be neutured, and live outsid efrom then on,s he really duidnt carea s she had a husbun to keep her company!

blueboy
13-12-2007, 12:27 AM
I do feel sorry for him as you can hear the little fella palying with his toys early in the morning when i'm trying to sleep and i think it would be nice for him to have someone to play with when i'm sleeping, busy, not there etccos i don't want him to feel alone

Maybe he is happy playing with his toys....that is what you have put them in there for :) If his playing with his toys it tells me he is able to entertain himself. Should you get another rabbit….they would make more noise not less. :lol:

elve
13-12-2007, 09:12 AM
Maybe he is happy playing with his toys....that is what you have put them in there for :) If his playing with his toys it tells me he is able to entertain himself. Should you get another rabbit….they would make more noise not less. :lol:

good point :lol: I'm home all day and my rabbits sleep and eat their poopys, nibble hay and just laze about doing nothing most of the day - I let them out for an hour's run in the morning, at tea time and just a short one around 10pm before I lock them up for the night. I found that when they have total free range they forgot to eat hay, and hay eating means litter training (put the hay in the tray), so I would always shut them in for most of the middle of the day - but they have got big accomodation and huge litter trays. I wouldn't put a pair in anything smaller than 2x6' area - or two 36" dog crates joined end to end. Problem with accomodation that goes upwards is the ladders take up so much space there's none left for the rabbits.

racheld69
13-12-2007, 10:04 AM
I think defo better with a friend. Rabbits are social creatures. Imagine if you lived with lots of rabbits but never hung out with any humans. Even if you spend 4 hours a day playing/being with your bun that is still 20 hours they are alone. I think unless you have one of these buns that hate all other buns they should not be alone. Even if they are just sitting next to each other staring into space they have someone to do that with - a companion and they are not alone and if they fancy a game or a groom or a cuddle they have their bunny friend there 24/7.:D Watching my 2 bunnies together has made me realise how important it is for them to have each other - and it has made no difference to my relationship with them - if anything it is better coz they are happier.

blueboy
13-12-2007, 05:31 PM
I have recently been reading another forum that has another point of view on this, and I can honestly see both sides. It depends on the bun and the situation. But it is not wrong to have one rabbit, it is wrong to have more then you can manage though.

Grace and Louis
13-12-2007, 08:35 PM
My two arent bonded yet but as Grace is on her own at night etc I feel a lot better now that she has Louis in the Living room with her for company etc. I think if she were on her own all day then I would have got her a friend sooner and would be more stressed about bonding them sooner.

As for cages; I got them NIC pannels on Thursday and I was going to build them a cage each and then make them something bigger when they were bonded but even a small 3 x 2 two level cage came up really quite large so there is plenty of room for both rabbits to be in there together.

Grace is a big bunny so I think two small rabbits would be fine in a small NIC together and you could even make them a run so they can come out of their cage when you are out at work

sillyrabbit
13-12-2007, 08:42 PM
But it is not wrong to have one rabbit, it is wrong to have more then you can manage though.

Completely agree :D

I have two single buns who will both be outside soon :D Right next to each other though so they at least have some sort of rabbit company :lol: I dont have the space for two more buns at the moment so they will be single until I hopefully find somewhere to live that has enough room :lol:

Kezza30
13-12-2007, 09:03 PM
Where can you buy NIC pannels, can you get them online, think they would be great, oh and i did talk to my mum about making a run kinda thig around his cage she thinks it's a good idea just have to make the room myself:rolleyes:

I had to go out 8.30am till 6.00pm for training so it's days like these i think he would be better of with a bunny friend, when he's been castrated. I cant say he doesn't like other rabbits cos he's 10 weeks old hasn't had the chance yet so i think it's only fair he gets a chance to have a bun friend if e so wishes, Casper was a much happier bun with poppy although he was outside and he's even more friendly than before and it's so sweet watching them together :D

Don't worry though i'm not going in over my head, i'll wait first see if i get acceped for this job (fingers crossed) so i know i can afford another bun and get a rescue girlie, thats a friend for Licky and helping a needy bunat the same time;) :D

Sooz
17-12-2007, 02:48 AM
I have recently been reading another forum that has another point of view on this, and I can honestly see both sides. It depends on the bun and the situation. But it is not wrong to have one rabbit, it is wrong to have more then you can manage though.

I also recently read some very disturbing and incorrect literature on another forum related to keeping bunnies alone.

Whilst I agree that not every bunny wants the companionship of its own kind and that some do get adequate stimulation and friendship from their human pals some of the 'observations' on rabbit behaviour such as the old gem of 'in the wild...' were very very incorrect.

I also wonder how many people have read the thread and thought its Ok to have a single rabbit because wild rabbits *apparently* live alone so domestic rabbits should too :?

Azraelm
17-12-2007, 11:03 AM
I always think, if possible it is best to have a pair of buns, no matter whether they are in or out.
As they will have each other 24hrs a day, they are the same species and also they can snuggle, play and love each other constanly!!! Also it is recommended that bunnies are always kept in pairs as they like to have a companion.
Obviously if you cannot have another bun it is good you have it indoors and spend time with it, but if there is a chance of rescuing another bun (so both single buns with then have a friend), then why not!!!

I agree :thumb:

There are a few exceptions where perhaps a rabbit is genuinelly happier on it's own, but they are the exception, not the rule. I think quite often owners tell themselves their rabbit doesn't like others because they like having the bunn's attention, and don't think about what it needs, only what they want. If you are out at work all day then there is even more need for them to have company of their own kind.

Tamsin
17-12-2007, 12:30 PM
Lets get scientific :D

Scientists kept individually housed rabbits and rabbits housed in pairs and compared the behaviour of each. The ones kept singly showed gradually increased abnormal behaviours such as bar chewing over the 5 month period. Those housed in pairs didn't. Rabbits in pairs moved about more (more exercise = healthier rabbit) and rabbits in pairs spend 26.7% of the time in physical contact (even though they had room to move apart).

A behavioral comparison of New Zealand White rabbits (Oryctolagus cuniculus) housed individually or in pairs in conventional laboratory cages
Ling-ru Chu, Joseph P. Garner, Joy A. Mench∗

Now even the best owner is going to have trouble spending 6 hours a day in physical contact with their rabbit :)

In another study they tested how much effort a rabbit would go to get get social contact with another rabbit. Do do that they had a weighted 'cat flap' that the rabbit had to push. The gradually increased the weight to see when the rabbit gave up.

They found that rabbits worked less hard if there was already a rabbit in scent range (so if you've got two single rabbits that can see/smell each other that helps for fill the need for social contact).

They also found that rabbits worked equally hard to get contact with another rabbit as they did to get to the food. If you know how much food motivates bunnies that a pretty clear message.

I do think humans can provide some of the social stimulation rabbits need I just don't think they are as good at it as another rabbit is.

Tamsin

donnamt
17-12-2007, 03:00 PM
ive noticed that lately because ste is working during some of the daytimes Alvin is very very clingy when i get home from work, and seems to be happy when ste comes home too... i feel terrible guilt that he has to be home alone and really hope that it is enough to get him to bond with his intended on the 3rd.. i have no idea what we are going to do if he messes up this bonding to :(

Sooz
17-12-2007, 03:14 PM
I do think humans can provide some of the social stimulation rabbits need I just don't think they are as good at it as another rabbit is.

Tamsin

Even my rabbit hating Willow is happier in a room with another rabbit than in a room on her own. She craves company but not in 'her' space.

karen354
17-12-2007, 03:19 PM
I had Bertie as a single bun for about 14 months,I really never believed he'd take to having a wifey bun .
We did finally get him a lovely wife called Fizz :D he loves her they're such a happy lovely couple....

Sooz
17-12-2007, 03:21 PM
I had Bertie as a single bun for about 14 months,I really never believed he'd take to having a wifey bun .
We did finally get him a lovely wife called Fizz :D he loves her they're such a happy lovely couple....

Willow has literally greeted every rabbit she met by taking a firm hold with her teeth.... and not letting go again. :(

vikkia1234
17-12-2007, 03:49 PM
I feel bad now that guinness is on his own now after reading these comments, it is absolutley not possible for me to get another rabbit and i dont want him ending up all sad and depressed.:(

Sooz
17-12-2007, 03:51 PM
Does he have a teddy to cuddle?

vikkia1234
17-12-2007, 03:55 PM
No :( Poor Guinness, i'll sort him out with a teddy when i get home :cry:

Azraelm
17-12-2007, 04:05 PM
No :( Poor Guinness, i'll sort him out with a teddy when i get home :cry:

Aww don't feel bad, I'm sure you give him lots of attention if you don't have the option of a friend for him.

Willow_Warren
17-12-2007, 04:08 PM
They found that rabbits worked less hard if there was already a rabbit in scent range (so if you've got two single rabbits that can see/smell each other that helps for fill the need for social contact).

Tamsin

I found all of what you said very interesting, but I picked up on this bit! I tried to bond Barley and Dolly but failed so they lived next to each other (the runs touching - so they had sight, smell and even touch occasionally as it was only thin wire netting between them and not space!). They would often sit next to each other but opposite sides of the bars so to speak!

Now Dolly has sadly departed from us I'm worried that Barley misses her. Part of me thinks he won't notice the difference as they didn't "live" together and part of me thinks he still misses his "next door neighbour". I mean if you relate it to humans if your only contact to other humans was via daily telephone converstaions say, you would still miss that contact if it were suddenly taken away! I know it's not a good comparison, but it's all I can think of right now!

Reading this thread has made me even more worried about Barley being all on his own outside - but I don't know what I can do about it!

Hannah x

vikkia1234
17-12-2007, 04:29 PM
Aww don't feel bad, I'm sure you give him lots of attention if you don't have the option of a friend for him.

Yeah he lots af attention, as much as i can give him, hes out from the minute i get home to the minute we go to bed, i hope hes not too lonely when we are at work. I didnt even think to get him a teddy to snuggle up to :(

Sooz
17-12-2007, 04:31 PM
Yeah he lots af attention, as much as i can give him, hes out from the minute i get home to the minute we go to bed, i hope hes not too lonely when we are at work. I didnt even think to get him a teddy to snuggle up to :(

Lexie has a little teddy bear and Caspian used to have a ben bag filled rabbit called "Randy" :lol:

vikkia1234
17-12-2007, 04:38 PM
Lexie has a little teddy bear and Caspian used to have a ben bag filled rabbit called "Randy" :lol:

Hummm i wonder why?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tamsin
17-12-2007, 05:01 PM
I think if at all possible rabbits should have rabbit companions but I do recognise that sometimes circumstances mean a rabbit is single - I've a single bun myself at the moment and feel mean about it at times. There are certainly thing, like a teddy, you can do to give the best possible enrichment.

Very few people have the perfect situation. It's usually a question of compromise so perhaps a rabbit swaps having a companion outside in a hutch for the benefit of a larger area to exercise as a single house rabbit.

Judging by some rabbits behaviour I would say that many single rabbits do treat humans as part of the warren social structure so having a human socialise with them is certainly better than being a single bun with little or no interaction.

The only thing that annoys me is when 'experts' claim that's how rabbits prefer to live. They obviously haven't seen very many bonded bunnies :)

Tamsin

Azraelm
17-12-2007, 05:05 PM
I think if at all possible rabbits should have rabbit companions but I do recognise that sometimes circumstances mean a rabbit is single - I've a single bun myself at the moment and feel mean about it at times. There are certainly thing, like a teddy, you can do to give the best possible enrichment.

Very few people have the perfect situation. It's usually a question of compromise so perhaps a rabbit swaps having a companion outside in a hutch for the benefit of a larger area to exercise as a single house rabbit.

Judging by some rabbits behaviour I would say that many single rabbits do treat humans as part of the warren social structure so having a human socialise with them is certainly better than being a single bun with little or no interaction.

The only thing that annoys me is when 'experts' claim that's how rabbits prefer to live. They obviously haven't seen very many bonded bunnies :)

Tamsin


i agree :thumb:

vikkia1234
18-12-2007, 10:23 AM
Right i got Guinness a teddy last night after reading these threads and i just had to tell you this - When i first introduced this stuffed toy to guinness he would come over, nudge the teddy then dash away performing binkys, after exhuasting himself out he spent nearly the whole evening grooming this teddy! It was adorable, made my heart melt!