Bunny's head is tilted to the left...?

Hi guys,

Not been on here for ages...

My sassi buns head is tilted to the left hand side. She was fine last night and i've noticed it this am. Her legs all seem to be ok, has she had a stroke maybe? is it related to EC and what does this mean?

Im so worried - please help...

Sam x

Hi Sam - you need to get your bunny to the vet ASAP. It could be EC, or it could be something like an inner ear infection. Either way it needs urgent medical attention to give her the best chance of survival and minimising further damage (ec can cause permanent damage of brain, kidneys, intestines etc if not treated promptly).

Good luck - please let us know what the vet says.

hi guys

been to the vets today. They are doing a blood test for Sassi to see whether it is EC or not. She is now on medication, i hope she hasn't got it otherwise all 13 of my bunnies will need treatment!!!!!!

Should get results back in a few days

no results as yet....

missblondebunny said:

no results as yet....

Click to expand...

Is she on Panacur anyway?
Hope you get the test results soon

Janex

How about Baytril incase its an inner ear infection? :?

Jack's-Jane said:

Is she on Panacur anyway?
Hope you get the test results soon

Janex

Click to expand...

Yes she is on panacur and yes she has had a course of baytril incase its an ear infection.

When should i notice a change in her? she started taking panacur on monday... is it a lengthly process?

Sam x

missblondebunny said:

Yes she is on panacur and yes she has had a course of baytril incase its an ear infection.

When should i notice a change in her? she started taking panacur on monday... is it a lengthly process?

Sam x

Click to expand...

If it is EC any improvement can be very slow. Sometimes the Bun is left with a permanent headtilt but they can adapt to cope with it
Anti-inflammatories can help. With EC its the inflammatory changes in the effected tissue within the CNS that causes the symptoms
Is she on an anti-inflam' like Metacam?

Are you treating any 'in contact' Buns with Panacur too? This is essential.

Janex

Similar Situation... EC/Stroke Head Tilt... advice

Hi - I noticed your post and thougth I would reply - I have a rabbit who has the same symptom-tilted head.

Smog also had problems with her back legs... I know your bunnies legs are fine... but EC and Strokes can affect them differently in each case. Anyhow here is what I have picked up about EC and strokes since Smog appeared with a tilted head one day!

EC - cannot be confirmed by blood test as any exposure to the parasite will result in a positive test result... even if your bun came into contact and carried it years ago. Most bunnies in the UK are in contact with this parasite or carry it at some point. Not all bunnies are affected-i.e. become ill etc.

Inner / Middle ear infections can cause similar but are normally related to Pasturella not EC.

Most get EC from their mother before birth, others can pick it up from spores in urine... but we are talking vast amounts of urine... many bunny keepers do not let urine deposits sit or build up to the extent needed to contract EC from another rabbits urine.

The test does not show if EC is currently in the rabbits system only if it has been. Spores from the parasite spread through liver, kidneys, central nervous system and eyes.

Some rabbits get cataracts, some brain damage, some permanent head tilt, some are incontinent or cannot urinate. Some lose all sensation in their legs... and so on. Most damage already caused cannot be reversed. But can be halted with treatment. Panacur only kills the parasite - stops it sporing/spreading, the damage caused improves with baytril/long acting steriodal anti-inflammatories etc. Treat your other rabbits twice yearly with Panacur - this is recommended by my excellent rabbit vet... this should be done by keepers as soon as the bunny is weaned to prevent E. Cunniculi from even becoming an issue. Most vets do not tell you this until a problem has already reared it's ugly head!! (like my old vet!!! ching ching goes his till!!!)

A stroke can only be determined by MRI scans and the like - which for a bunny would costs A LOT of money. There is no cure, just rehab and drugs to prevent swelling of the brain etc. If your bunny has had a stroke - her condition will not get worse, but will take a while to improve-it can be slow. Stroke bunnies are at higher risk from another stroke so calm, non stressful environments are important. A bang to the head whilst playing can trigger another stroke-as can any head trauma.

My bunny Smog, has had the following treatments;

Panacur x 2 weeks treatment
Baytril x 4 weeks treatment
Metacalm & 1 other anti-inflammatory / steroid (can't remember all the names!!) long acting 2 weeks in system.
Stronger Anti-inflammatory/steroid - long acting - in system for 4 weeks.

At the start of her treatment she had tilted head - runny eyes - loss of co-ordination in her back legs and could not jump/hop. If you picked her up she would fall over when you put her back on the floor... any shock or sudden movement confused her to the point where standing up and thinking about something else made her fall over on her side and writhe on the floor before struggling her way to her feet... her brain could not process all of the information and control her body at the same time. It was quite a sad sight but she was still eating, drinking and moving around so there was hope.

After her treatment - last visit to vets a month ago - she now has better co-ordination in her back legs, is not getting confused and falling over, can wash herself again, can charge around like a mini-tank with the baby bunny she has as her toyhusbun! She is still tilting her head - and does not leap around binkying but you can tell she knows what is going on around her now.. before she just sat in a daze.

She has improved vastly - thanks to treatments.

I would keep your bunny with one putty bunny (soft and non-dominant) as playing chase and darting around like loonies is dangerous for bunnies with tilted head etc. Keep bunny calm, in a safe place with no heights to fall from etc perhaps indoor cage? I really think that bringing my bunny inside helped in her rehab... the noises - people in and out - cats, other bunnies etc. If you seperate a bunny from her partner/group they get depressed - which won't help! If you need any other info please ask... I feared the worst with my bunny... and am so relieved she is on the mend. She is 3 years old - and was my first in many buns so I was extra upset!

As long as symptoms don't increase or get worse - your bunny can adapt to her physical limitations like tilted head etc. Cosmetically if you do not mind having a bunny with a tilted head (which i am sure no-one does) then eventually you both get used to the change and adapt. Stimulation, lots of tlc and vets treatment and medicines are what helped Smog Bunny to recover some of her old self. She was still my Smog and I had to let her know I still loved her even though some days she didn't seem to know who I was!! It made me cry!! (normally being a strong, hard-hearted so and so after so many illnesses and tumors in my mousery)

I hope I have not been too blunt (one of my bad habits!) but I have tried not to coat it in candy and be straight with you regarding what CAN but may not happen. There is light at the end of the tunnel... hope this has helped... and fingers crossed for your buns treatments and recovery x x There are loads of sites on the web detailing the above if you want to check them out, if you need the links give me a shout!

Similar Situation... EC/Stroke Head Tilt... advice

Hi - I noticed your post and thougth I would reply - I have a rabbit who has the same symptom-tilted head.

Smog also had problems with her back legs... I know your bunnies legs are fine... but EC and Strokes can affect them differently in each case. Anyhow here is what I have picked up about EC and strokes since Smog appeared with a tilted head one day!

EC - cannot be confirmed by blood test as any exposure to the parasite will result in a positive test result... even if your bun came into contact and carried it years ago. Most bunnies in the UK are in contact with this parasite or carry it at some point. Not all bunnies are affected-i.e. become ill etc.

Inner / Middle ear infections can cause similar but are normally related to Pasturella not EC.

Most get EC from their mother before birth, others can pick it up from spores in urine... but we are talking vast amounts of urine... many bunny keepers do not let urine deposits sit or build up to the extent needed to contract EC from another rabbits urine.

The test does not show if EC is currently in the rabbits system only if it has been. Spores from the parasite spread through liver, kidneys, central nervous system and eyes.

Some rabbits get cataracts, some brain damage, some permanent head tilt, some are incontinent or cannot urinate. Some lose all sensation in their legs... and so on. Most damage already caused cannot be reversed. But can be halted with treatment. Panacur only kills the parasite - stops it sporing/spreading, the damage caused improves with baytril/long acting steriodal anti-inflammatories etc. Treat your other rabbits twice yearly with Panacur - this is recommended by my excellent rabbit vet... this should be done by keepers as soon as the bunny is weaned to prevent E. Cunniculi from even becoming an issue. Most vets do not tell you this until a problem has already reared it's ugly head!! (like my old vet!!! ching ching goes his till!!!)

A stroke can only be determined by MRI scans and the like - which for a bunny would costs A LOT of money. There is no cure, just rehab and drugs to prevent swelling of the brain etc. If your bunny has had a stroke - her condition will not get worse, but will take a while to improve-it can be slow. Stroke bunnies are at higher risk from another stroke so calm, non stressful environments are important. A bang to the head whilst playing can trigger another stroke-as can any head trauma.

My bunny Smog, has had the following treatments;

Panacur x 2 weeks treatment
Baytril x 4 weeks treatment
Metacalm & 1 other anti-inflammatory / steroid (can't remember all the names!!) long acting 2 weeks in system.
Stronger Anti-inflammatory/steroid - long acting - in system for 4 weeks.

At the start of her treatment she had tilted head - runny eyes - loss of co-ordination in her back legs and could not jump/hop. If you picked her up she would fall over when you put her back on the floor... any shock or sudden movement confused her to the point where standing up and thinking about something else made her fall over on her side and writhe on the floor before struggling her way to her feet... her brain could not process all of the information and control her body at the same time. It was quite a sad sight but she was still eating, drinking and moving around so there was hope.

After her treatment - last visit to vets a month ago - she now has better co-ordination in her back legs, is not getting confused and falling over, can wash herself again, can charge around like a mini-tank with the baby bunny she has as her toyhusbun! She is still tilting her head - and does not leap around binkying but you can tell she knows what is going on around her now.. before she just sat in a daze.

She has improved vastly - thanks to treatments.

I would keep your bunny with one putty bunny (soft and non-dominant) as playing chase and darting around like loonies is dangerous for bunnies with tilted head etc. Keep bunny calm, in a safe place with no heights to fall from etc perhaps indoor cage? I really think that bringing my bunny inside helped in her rehab... the noises - people in and out - cats, other bunnies etc. If you seperate a bunny from her partner/group they get depressed - which won't help! If you need any other info please ask... I feared the worst with my bunny... and am so relieved she is on the mend. She is 3 years old - and was my first in many buns so I was extra upset!

As long as symptoms don't increase or get worse - your bunny can adapt to her physical limitations like tilted head etc. Cosmetically if you do not mind having a bunny with a tilted head (which i am sure no-one does) then eventually you both get used to the change and adapt. Stimulation, lots of tlc and vets treatment and medicines are what helped Smog Bunny to recover some of her old self. She was still my Smog and I had to let her know I still loved her even though some days she didn't seem to know who I was!! It made me cry!! (normally being a strong, hard-hearted so and so after so many illnesses and tumors in my mousery)

I hope I have not been too blunt (one of my bad habits!) but I have tried not to coat it in candy and be straight with you regarding what CAN but may not happen. There is light at the end of the tunnel... hope this has helped... and fingers crossed for your buns treatments and recovery x x There are loads of sites on the web detailing the above if you want to check them out, if you need the links give me a shout!

linzi1loveanimals said:

EC - cannot be confirmed by blood test as any exposure to the parasite will result in a positive test result... even if your bun came into contact and carried it years ago. Most bunnies in the UK are in contact with this parasite or carry it at some point. Not all bunnies are affected-i.e. become ill etc.

!

Click to expand...

A blood test confirms EC EXPOSURE and contact but to establish how ACTIVE an infection is several tests should be taken during the course of treatment......the number of EC antibodies will decline if the infection is active as it responds to treatment.

Any rabbit testing positive to EC exposure should be treated anyway....even carriers may have the parasite for years before developing symptoms, though some may never become ill at all. It is best to eradicate any possibility of infection as soon as it is noticed, especially if you have other rabbits who may be at risk from a potential carrier.

Should i be treating ALL of my rabbits now then? Sassi is in a shed with 12 other bunnies and i don't want them all getting it!! The vet told me to wait for the results before i go ahead and treat all of my rabbits, is this the right thing to do?

How long does she need to be on panacur for?

If my others need it but show know signs how long do they have to be treated for?

Im hoping to hear from my vets today.

Thanks for all your comments, you've been a real help

missblondebunny said:

Should i be treating ALL of my rabbits now then? Sassi is in a shed with 12 other bunnies and i don't want them all getting it!! The vet told me to wait for the results before i go ahead and treat all of my rabbits, is this the right thing to do?

How long does she need to be on panacur for?

If my others need it but show know signs how long do they have to be treated for?

Im hoping to hear from my vets today.

Thanks for all your comments, you've been a real help

Click to expand...

I would wait for the results - it could be a stroke - but as both myself and someone else mentioned you cannot confirm it is EC on the first test - only if it could be or is not. My bun was on panacur for 2 weeks. If you look on the Intervet link given on a previous post it tells you the recommended preventative treatment dose. I would consider your position financially with regard to treating them all. If you would have to forfeit vet care for the poorly bun to treat the others with Panacur then do it bit by bit - say 2 buns a week? If money is no object do them all. Your bunnies could haev had EC for as long as you have had them... and the only reason you have been alerted to it's importance is because one showed possible symptoms.

Taken from the House Rabbit Society Website;
The clinical signs in rabbits usually involve disease of the kidney, brain or spinal cord. If severe kidney disease is present, a generalized weakness may be observed which could be initially mistaken for a neurological problem. In addition to weakness and depression, the rabbit may exhibit a poor appetite, increased water intake, increased urination, an ammonia odor to the breath and sudden death. Kidney disease is usually diagnosed by blood tests and occasionally a kidney biopsy. If the brain or spinal cord is infected, the signs may vary depending on what area is damaged. A rabbit may experience any one or combination of the following: unilateral or bilateral facial paralysis, weakness in only one limb, complete hind limb weakness or paralysis, all four limb weakness or paralysis, head tilt, loss of appetite, behavior changes, depression, seizures (mild to severe) and sudden death.

There is a blood test that can detect the presence of E cuniculi in the rabbit. It detects antibodies to the parasite. The test was primarily designed to detect positive animals in a breeding colony or laboratory setting so they could be removed from the population. The test is of limited use in pet rabbits because it does not prove that this parasite is the cause of the clinical signs present. In other words, many rabbits have been exposed to this parasite and are infected, but will never show any sign of disease. Therefore, if we get a positive test, it only means that the rabbit has the parasite in its body, it does not prove that the parasite is responsible for any of the clinical signs we are currently seeing. The only way to diagnose if the parasite is actually causing the signs would be to take a biopsy of the brain or spinal cord, which is dangerous and not at all practical. Therefore, we can only make a tentative diagnosis of E cuniculi based on the rule out of other diseases along with the presence of a positive E. cuniculi test showing that the animal has the potential for having a problem with this parasite.

Treatment: Unfortunately there is no treatment for an active infection of E. cuniculi. Drugs such as ivermectin and other parasiticides have been tried without success. The parasite lives within the cells and it is very difficult to get medication into this protected area. In Europe there was a study published in 1994 which suggested that the drugs fumagillin and albendazole might be useful, but they are not available in the U.S. and have not been tried on live animals. Even if a drug is discovered that can clear an infection of E. cuniculi, it will not be able to reverse the effects of brain, spinal cord or kidney damage once it has occurred. Rabbits that have clinical signs of the disease should be supported with good nursing care. Antibiotics, analgesics and anti-inflammatory drugs may be used as needed for secondary problems that may develop. Most pet rabbits have probably contracted the infection from the mother. Rabbits that are obtained as adults and that are not used for breeding are not liely to shed the spores. Hoever, young rabbits under 4 months of age that may have contracted the disease from the mother could be actively shedding the spores in their urine. It would probably be a good idea to isolate rabbits under 5 months of age from other rabbits in the house. An E. cuniculi test could be run on these youngsters to determine if they are carrying the parasite. If they are negative, they could be put with the other rabbits earlier than 5 months of age. We have been unable to find a definitive source that indicates the best product with which to clean the environment and remove any spores. Any materials that are contaminated with urine, such as wood or carpet, that cannot be cleaned thoroughly should be destroyed. Other substances, such as plastic and metal should be scrubbed with a phenol disinfectant (Lysol is one example) or a strong bleach solution and then rinsed thoroughly.

Aso found this;
STROKE
Cause: Strokes are not nearly as common in our pets as they are in humans. A stroke is a caused by either an obstruction of the flow of blood through a blood vessel in the brain or when a blood vessel ruptures and bleeds out into the surrounding brain tissue. Both "vascular accidents" can cause mild to severe brain tissue death.
Signs: The signs are dependent on where the damage takes place in the brain and may range from mild facial or extremity muscle weakness to complete paralysis of one or both sides of the body to sudden death. The incidence of strokes increases both in animals and people with age. Rarely, an animal can have a stroke following a surgical procedure due to a blot clot becoming lodged in a blood vessel in the brain.

Diagnosis: It is very difficult to diagnose a stroke in an animal without the sophisticated equipment available to humans. In humans, a diagnosis of stroke is made with one or more of the following procedures; arteriography (a radiographic dye study of the brain's blood vessels), CT (computed tomography) scan or MRI (magnetic resonance imaging). In animals a diagnosis of stroke is suggested based on ruling out other causes of disease.

Treatment: There is no treatment for a stroke. The only thing that can be done is to support the pet with fluids, assist feedings and pain medications if necessary. If the rabbit has lost the ability to control its bathroom habits, then it will have to have its bladder expressed several times a day and kept clean and dry. It can take weeks to months for the nerve tissue to heal and usually there is some degree of irreversible brain damage. You should discuss your bunny's prognosis with your veterinarian and decide what the best and most humane course of action should be for your pet.

Hope this helps you decide your action for treating all or not?

Personally I would treat all in contact Rabbits
The Panacur 10% Liquid is more economical than the Panacur Rabbit Paste when treating numerous Rabbits
The dose for Panacur 10% Liquid is 0.2ml/kg ( 20mg/kg)

http://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/prodinfo.asp?number=PANL1

Janex

Your rabbit, should he prove positive, needs a minimum course of 6 weeks, new research suggests 28 days is not long enough as EC spores shed periodically every few weeks.

In contact rabbits (cohabiting or if poor hygiene has beeen used eg. sharing dustpans and brushes between hutches) will also need 6 weeks.

Other rabbits should be treated with 9 days as a preventative unless they show symptoms.

Her bloods came back with a positive for EC, so i will now have to treat my other bunnies also.

I've got to take Sassi back to the vets on tues for a check up. i must say that her head is not as tilted as it was. probably only a 5-10% angle now. I hope thats a good sign!

Does anyone know where you can buy panacur rabbit really cheaply?

The rabbit version is available from www.wormers.co.uk

My buns prefer the taste of the rabbit version, but the 10% version works out cheaper to buy.

Unfortunately the syringe containing the rabbit panacur has been redesigned and is now more difficult to use because the graduations are closer together :roll: