do i carry on or admit defeat for his sake

I have been trying yet again to bond the four.....Its got to the point where bertie and willow get on fine..where willow and bandit can exercise at the same time in the lounge no probs...
so what ive used its a big travel cot/playpen....i had to include a new litter tray and a bleached out old tray as a back up.
ive been putting them in for half an hour at least twice daily..but today was just once...
i tried the other method of not splitting them up..thought bandit would die..

hes such a nervous but oh so friendly little boy.He likes the cats and was so desperate to get on with the buns..first couple of times bonding previously he kept presenting his head to be washed and tried to cuddle up to the buns like nothing was wrong with doing that!
he goes nuts....he makes a mmmmnp noise and thumps his foot and rushes around like a madman..not knowing where he is going..literally blind panic..
ive tried everything even enforced snuggling...berties washed him etc but as soon as he starts that then bertie goes for him...but its really a chase n nip then stand staring at him in disbelief.
willow and bandit are the 2 submissives and bertie n bif are trying to get to be boss of the other one.


but poor little thing..he wont settle when hes being snuggled..he does then the panic begins and off he goes. Im so upset...i dont know how to calm him down..the blooming fireworks last few weeks have terrified him....hes decided to stay in his cage he wont come out on his own anymore(fireworks did that to him )
i get him out and hes scared but then he wants hugs..he really does he runs up me for a cuddleand goes to sleep under my chin..bless him.
I am terrified hes going to drop dead like this but he wants the buns at the same time...what should i do..im so upset and confsed and soooo worried for bandit.

neither bandit or willow seem to be washing the other two or each other..is this normal?

Could you maybe condense it a bit? ............

Its hard to read because you've written so much! Cant you just have two pairs? :?

Deb, if its really not working and Bandit is getting too stressed, cant you try for 2 pairs, or if thats not possible then go for a trio and a single. Good luck :wave:

have tried to shorten it honest

thanks for the advice..i may have to try two pairs but today has given me great hope at last!

we were outside in pen panels..bif only niped willow once and bandit once..bandit got ashed furiously by both bertie and bif...and snuggled by willow as usual....there was no thumping of feet or mad dashing..it went so well i was out there for just over an hour when i heard two cats next door about to have a huge scrap..bandit and bif were a quivering mess so i got them indoors..bandit was frozen and had done a few soft poos bless him..took him ages to warm up!

I am hoping for dry few days and then a bit more bonding..its going better..i think patience really is a virtue!:lol:

I think I have got the jist of this, let me know if I have got it wrong. The behaviour you are concerned at is:
Chase n nip
Staring at him in disbelief
Makes a mmmmnp noise and thumps his foot

All the above is normal bonding behaviour, if you are doing 30 minute sessions you will find it difficult to bond these together. You need to have a clear 48 hours where they can have them together constantly. Personally when I am bonding rabbits I would not split them for any of the above behaviour, even for a few minutes. Enforced snuggling by putting them together does not work as rabbits need to sort out their differences themselves.

If you want help with the bonding, I am happy to do it for you at my place on totally neutral territory. Due to doing about 3 bondings a week for the rescue I am pretty booked up for a number of weeks, however if you do want help please shout.

i started at 30 mins and stick outside for up to two or three hours until rthey get too cold etc on the concrete.
indoors i had them together for at least an hour sometimes three...or until they scrapped too much.
we tried upstairs..our only neitral room some weeks back for over 8 hours but the fights were terrible and bandit was a mess nerve wise..so we stopped.

today we only had after 2.30pm free so i wheeled my duaghters wheelchair with her carrying the cat box with 2 buns in whilst my eldelry mum pushed the pet stroller with the other 2 buns in..over the green abit to her house.
shes scrubbed the kitchen floor and we were over there for over 2 hours with just one nip on the head for wilow from bif..and one nip on the head for bandit from bertie..
one point we had bertie bif and bandit cuddled up..willow was noseying aorund.
willow washed bandut like crazy..shes not washed any other bun at all!!! neither has bandit..but when we first had him he did wash our cat!
bandit finally laid down adn tried to relax..od really cos depsite her huge size..willow was as stressed as he was!

it was pitch dark n freezing pushing uphill home...bertie was too cold to come out! they went there seperate ways and willow was asleep in minutes same with the others...

i know i need to try longer but its not always feasible..but i do my best...ive got tomorrow relatively free apart from looking after my daughter whose 23 with chronic severe M.E..

ive disinfected the playpen and removed all hay etc and trays...i think ill pop it out in the porch..i know theyve sniffed around alittle out there before but its cold and damp and smells weird and they might not see it as my ground no my ground as theyll be in the cot.

if its dry and warmer then whilst the suns up i will have ago outside but sun goes so fast now.

ooh wow youd really offer me that..im so chuffed thats s lovley of you.

BUT im epileptic and dont drive and its just me my daughter n my eldelry mum across the road...but i really really appreciate the offer..wished i could take it up!!

i am trying to sort out my shedule of sleep etc.ha ha then i will do qa massive bond..keep them with me..sleep next to them etc. ive got severe ibs stressing over this!!! hope it doesnt lead to another fit!!! its soooo different to bondinmg a pair!!!

yep i know its normal behaviour but ive never known one bun get beaten up for scaring the others!:shock: