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Interesting article about bunny dentals

A

AlisonA

Warren Veteran
http://www.dacross1.demon.co.uk/downloads/dent-rab-tooth-elong.pdf

I thought the part about the need to reduce the height of the molars rather than just taking off the spurs (pg 6) was interesting. I didn't think this was particularly common practice although I have heard it being done, and wondered what others thought :? Does filing them right down mean that the sensitive insides of the teeth are exposed? Does anyone have experience of 'solving' tooth root problems by this method?
 
AlisonA said:
http://www.dacross1.demon.co.uk/downloads/dent-rab-tooth-elong.pdf

I thought the part about the need to reduce the height of the molars rather than just taking off the spurs (pg 6) was interesting. I didn't think this was particularly common practice although I have heard it being done, and wondered what others thought :? Does filing them right down mean that the sensitive insides of the teeth are exposed? Does anyone have experience of 'solving' tooth root problems by this method?
Click to expand...

I have met David Crossley and he is excellent.
Christobel burrs molars right down to the gum. It does mean that *sometimes* the Bun needs a couple of days Metacam but I have also found that it significantly increases the time between Dentals and *seems* to slow down the process of tooth root elongation.

Janex
 
Thanks Jane! I wonder what his view of conscious dentals is; someone asked the question at the RWA conference and the view of the vets in our session was that on the balance of risk, the GA is safer than the stress levels of a bun being conscious - particularly because the GA means they can't remember it anyway - even for buns who need regular ones (in fact Sharon Redrobe said especially in those poorly ones). I find it such a fascinating topic with so many different views.
 
AlisonA said:
Thanks Jane! I wonder what his view of conscious dentals is; someone asked the question at the RWA conference and the view of the vets in our session was that on risk, the GA is safer than the stress levels of a bun being conscious - particularly because the GA means they can't remember it anyway. I find it such a fascinating topic with so many different views.
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AFAIK he is not a fan of Dentals without GA.
As I recall he thinks the risk of accidental injury and consequent haemorrhage plus the significant stress on the Bun makes Dental's without GA *not* advisable.
I have talked with Christobel about this at length and I am now 100% convinced that it's impossible to do a thorough Dental on a conscious Rabbit

Janex
 
What would there views be on one or maybe two thorough GA dentals per year with other conscious dentals in the interim as required?
 
I have to disagree with the experts here

I had a bun myself who had a GA and dental..took ages to recover and was still not eating properly......luckily I then was told about the vets who do dentals without Ga..took Thistle..who did not like handling...she was fine..eating straight away..no stress..she had her teeth done this way every 8 -12 weeks for nearly 2 years with no ill effects whatsoever .

We also take all the rescue buns to vets who do teeth this way...if we didn't we could not keep these bunnies going as no way could we cover the cost of regular GA's for 12 bunnies..other rescues have no choice but to PTs these types of buns due to lack of funds and lack of offers of homes.

If more vets could do this procedure without the GA think how many rabbit lives would be longer:?

and I have known 2 people who's rabbits have died whilst having teeth done under GA..I've never known one to die having them burred/clipped while conscious
 
Homer was first done under GA by one vet and took a couple of days to get over the GA, I might add that I do not think this vet did a particulary good job anyway.

I had to take him back 2-3 weeks later when a vet who was covering had a look and only sedated him and did his teeth again, they were much better this time. This vet will do Homer without a GA as has to have them done every 4 weeks (we may be able to extend this as time goes on). Homer is a placid bunny and this probably makes it a little easier for the vet, when he gets home he is back to normal immediately.

I know there are risks in either method, but to me there is a bigger risk with the GA, especially if it has to be done regularly.
 
I find this debate really interesting. It makes me wonder what the reasons for buns having problems with GA are. Maybe in part it's down to the GA mix that the vet uses in each case? Santa has to have regular dentals but there is no way I would let anyone attempt a conscious one on her as she is such a stressed little flower that I feel it's far better for her to be totally unaware of it.

I guess it just goes to prove that each bun is an individual and they all need appropriate care according to their needs and the match to the particular skills and experience of the treating vet!

The ones who do have them done consciously, is any sedation given at all or is it literally fully conscious? I've no experience of this so I'm genuinely curious.

Also, are conscious ones burred right down to the gum or is it just the actual spikes removed? Again the reason I ask is because the article implies that to deal with tooth root problems, the teeth need to be taken right back to the gum so I'd be interested to hear if this is possible without GA.
 
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honeybunny said:
I have to disagree with the experts here

I had a bun myself who had a GA and dental..took ages to recover and was still not eating properly......luckily I then was told about the vets who do dentals without Ga..took Thistle..who did not like handling...she was fine..eating straight away..no stress..she had her teeth done this way every 8 -12 weeks for nearly 2 years with no ill effects whatsoever .

We also take all the rescue buns to vets who do teeth this way...if we didn't we could not keep these bunnies going as no way could we cover the cost of regular GA's for 12 bunnies..other rescues have no choice but to PTs these types of buns due to lack of funds and lack of offers of homes.

If more vets could do this procedure without the GA think how many rabbit lives would be longer:?

and I have known 2 people who's rabbits have died whilst having teeth done under GA..I've never known one to die having them burred/clipped while conscious
Click to expand...

Don't they sedate them at all? :shock:
 
Me too Alison :?
Having seen how complex doing a thorough Dental is, the need to use cheek retractors and a tongue protector in order to 'access all areas' I just cannot see how it could be done if the Bun is awake. Some Dentals can involve lots of burring and reshaping of the crown. I dont understand how this could be possible on a conscious Rabbit :?

Also, stress can effect the Buns GI tract and Renal function. Surely that is just as much of a risk as a GA :?

Janex
 
Well I too am intrigues with this topic!! Esp since Charlie may need to have further molar dentals in the future.

Cant imagine with absolutely no sedatino he'd let them get anywhere near him!! He doesnt even like the thingy that is used to look at the back teeth, and i'm sure he'd be stressed out...:?

Someone did mention sedation?? what is involved with that?
Also is this more common in incissors rather than molars?
 
Ahh I found the thread, sorry if I repeat myself but...

My own bunny had his teeth burred without GA a few weeks ago. He was only in the surgery a couple of minutes, and once back home, he went straight into the run and happily munched on grass, seeming none the worse. I honestly think he was more stressed by the journey than the procedure.

I've also been at the surgery when some of the Honey Bunnies (some of which I foster) have had their teeth burred and they were out within minutes also, a couple of them were happily muching hay in their carrier before they'd even got back into the car. There were definately no side effects like you get with a GA.

There are bound to be risks involved in non GA dentals, but there are risks involved with GA's too, I've seen some bunnies really struggle to get over a GA and back to eating properly. I'd personally, much rather go for the non GA approach, especially as the bun gets older and the GA risks get greater.
 
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Doncat5 said:
Ahh I foundthe thread, sorry if I repeat myself but...

My own bunny had his teeth burred without GA a few weeks ago. He was only in the surgery a couple of minutes, and once back home, he went straight into the run and happily munched on grass, seeming none the worse. I honestly think he was more stressed by the journey than the procedure.

I've also been at the surgery when some of the Honey Bunnies (some of which I foster) have had their teeth burred and they were out within minutes also, a couple of them were happily muching hay in their carrier before they'd even got back into the car. There were definately no side effects like you get with a GA.

There are bound to be risks involved in non GA dentals, but there are risks involved with GA's too, I've seen some bunnies really struggle to get over a GA and back to eating properly. I'd personally, much rather go for the non GA approach, especially as the bun gets older and the GA risks get greater.
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But how can a thorough Dental involving burring of the molars and reshaping of the crown be done in 'minutes' :?
I can understand that a few spurs could be filed down but I really cant understand how a more complex Dental could be done in minutes on a concious Bun :?

Janex
 
Has anyone actually seen a conscious dental peformed?

How many people does it involve? I am very curious as to how they restrain the rabbit.

Im lucky in having a bunny that responds very well to a GA and is on his feet and eating within 2 hours but I appreciate many people dont have such a co-operative patient!
 
Jack's-Jane said:
But how can a thorough Dental involving burring of the molars and reshaping of the crown be done in 'minutes' :?
I can understand that a few spurs could be filed down but I really cant understand how a more complex Dental could be done in minutes on a concious Bun :?

Janex
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I guess there are some complex cases where the teeth are so bad that it could be too stressful to keep them awake so long and do it... but the ones I witnessed, took literally, a few minutes.

My own bunny Bob, had small spurs and wont need them doing again for months, so for such a small job I wouldnt risk a GA.
 
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What equipment did they use Doncat, was it manual or electrical? And was one of those mouth-holdy-open thingies used?

It does sound like a bit of an interrogation I know, I'm just genuinely curious as to exactly what goes on and how the end result is different to a GA'd one. If I'm reading it right, what he seems to be implying in his article is that simply chopping off the spurs does virtually nothing to resolve the issue, whereas if it's caught before it becomes chronic, a number of more robust dentals could completely resolve it.

Santa's is already chronic and largely due to face shape than anything else so it's a moot point for her, but I'm still interested to hear different feelings on this.
 
AlisonA said:
What equipment did they use Doncat, was it manual or electrical? And was one of those mouth-holdy-open thingies used?

It does sound like a bit of an interrogation I know, I'm just genuinely curious as to exactly what goes on and how the end result is different to a GA'd one. If I'm reading it right, what he seems to be implying in his article is that simply chopping off the spurs does virtually nothing to resolve the issue, whereas if it's caught before it becomes chronic, a number of more robust dentals could completely resolve it.
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No problem Alison, I find it really interesting myself. Unfortunately I dont know a lot more, as I wasnt in the room, I was in the waiting room, but I know the vet used a 'mouth hold open thingy' as she mentioned it. I'm assuming she uses an electrical device to burr them as they were in an out in a flash.

As far as my own bun is concerned, it seems he's had 2 dentals, the first approximatley 18 months ago and then one just a couple of weeks ago. He's had his teeth looked at a few times in between by different vets and at the last dental, he apparently, had only small spurs (hopefully du to my efforts at making him eat well). Maybe if he had chronic malformed teeth and was needing dentals every few weeks, then I'd maybe try a GA and see if a more severe burring would make a difference.... but then again, dont vets do a more severe burring under GA anyway, to save the bun from going under so often??

From the rabbits I've know, it seems they've had just small to medium spurs that dont really stop them from eating but may cause a bit of pain now and again.... I definatey wouldnt want to risk a GA for that.

Its interesting stuff.
 
When Homer first had his teeth done it was under full GA and then 3 weeks later under a lighter sedation (by my new vet). Now he has them conscious.

I too wait in the waiting room for approx 10 minutes and can hear "electrical" gadgets. My guess is they are just burred to level them out and not right back to the gum as the vet says they are uneven. If he needed any more intense treatment than this then I would insist on some sort of sedation.

I must admit this topic is interesting to hear different opinions and has prompted me to ask more about what is done during the appointments.
 
Jack's-Jane said:
Me too Alison :?
Having seen how complex doing a thorough Dental is, the need to use cheek retractors and a tongue protector in order to 'access all areas' I just cannot see how it could be done if the Bun is awake. Some Dentals can involve lots of burring and reshaping of the crown. I dont understand how this could be possible on a conscious Rabbit :?

Also, stress can effect the Buns GI tract and Renal function. Surely that is just as much of a risk as a GA :?

Janex
Click to expand...

I now have to totally agree with Jane. My last post was about my bun having dentals without GA but tonight he has had to go again and my vet said he was limited to exactly what he could do without a GA and that he wants to see Homer again in 3 weeks and sedate him so he can get to the very back.

My link re Homer's recent teeth problems is http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?p=2170362#post2170362
 
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