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View Full Version : How do you stop feeling responsible...U/D Vets Report



Sooz
13-11-2007, 06:22 PM
when you lose a rabbit through a decision you have made?

Angie text me about an hour ago to tell me her foster bunny Harley had not made it through her spey :(

It was a necessary procedure but I feel swamped with guilt, I made the decision to neuter her.

Does it ever get any easier?

:cry: :cry:

norrielian
13-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Awwww, big hugs and sorry to hear the bad news :cry: :cry:

If its any comfort, I think most people would make the same decision, you shouldn't blame yourself.

Becca6
13-11-2007, 06:28 PM
So sorry to hear about this Sooz. :cry: :cry: :cry:

You do what you have to do, and unfortunately sometimes it doesn't work out. I'm a believer that things happen for a reason, and although you can't work out why, sometimes you just have to accept that life can be very cruel at times.

For me personally if I didn't have spays done, I'd always be waiting and wondering if something was going to happen.

Sorry. That all sounds silly but it's not coming out very well.

Binky free Harley.

Rebec :(

Steph
13-11-2007, 06:32 PM
I dont think you should beat yourself up about this Sooz. Spays are generally done like clockwork and not many are fatal. We all know how important it is to spay a bunny. Thinking of both you and Angie and Im so very sorry. Binky free Harley.

Thea & Bobbin
13-11-2007, 06:32 PM
You were trying to make her life better and prevent possible cancer... it's what anyone would have done. It's ironic and maybe that's why this one is particularly hard. At least you know she went peacefully under GA.

So sorry :cry: binky free little girl xxx

Isabel
13-11-2007, 06:34 PM
Don't blame yourself or feel guilty, I know it must be hard but I truly believe everyone and everything has its time. She could have got cancer without a spey and died a lot more slowly, atleast she passed peacefully to the Bridge.
xx

Sooz
13-11-2007, 06:35 PM
I know some of you wont agree with this and I expect to get plenty of hate mail, but Harley's was an emergency spey and her circumstances were pretty dire. :cry: :cry:

Thats why I am feeling particularly bad right now.

Tamsin
13-11-2007, 06:43 PM
Usually if they loose a rabbit via anaesthetic it's because of an underlying undetected complication. So, for example a heart problem. I imagine it would be also be upsetting to send a bun off to a new home and then the owners be devastated to loose the bunny to heart failure.

You make the decision based on the info you have to hand - that's all you can do really :(

Sooz
13-11-2007, 06:47 PM
Yes, we lost Chloe to a heart defect under GA.

Angie is taking Harvey (Harleys partner) in for a check up tonight so we will find out exactly what happened then.

Becca
13-11-2007, 06:48 PM
:cry: :cry: So sorry.
Please don,t blame yourself:cry:

Becca6
13-11-2007, 06:49 PM
You're the only one who can make a decision, based on whatever you are faced with. No-one else knows what the situation is or was and I don't feel judgements should be made when the full facts aren't known.

Sorry you've had this upset.

Hugs to you.

Rebec :)

Fairy13
13-11-2007, 06:53 PM
You're the only one who can make a decision, based on whatever you are faced with. No-one else knows what the situation is or was and I don't feel judgements should be made when the full facts aren't known.

Sorry you've had this upset.

Hugs to you.

Rebec :)

Very well said. You've done what you felt was best for this bun. Nobody can do more than that.
Hugs to you.
Binky free Harley x x x

Jack's-Jane
13-11-2007, 06:54 PM
I believe we all do what we think to be right for a particular Bun based on what we know of the Bun and on a trusted Vet's advice. Sadly sometimes a tragedy occurs :cry: I can fully understand why you feel 'responsible' as I know I would too. But just because we may be 'responsible' for making a decision does *not* mean it is our FAULT if something goes wrong due to circumstances beyond anyones control.

I have lost 2 Does during a spay in the 10 years I have had Rabbits. Had I then never had another Doe spayed I would probably have lost 20+ to Uterine Cancer

Janex

catswhiskas
13-11-2007, 06:57 PM
I bloody hate spays..... I really feel for you Sooz, after the last spay I vowed never again however then there are the risks of you rehoming and them having an accidental litter or of the bun getting cancer. Hugs coming your way xxxx

donnamt
13-11-2007, 07:02 PM
when you lose a rabbit through a decision you have made?

Angie text me about an hour ago to tell me her foster bunny Harley had not made it through her spey :(

It was a necessary procedure but I feel swamped with guilt, I made the decision to neuter her.

Does it ever get any easier?

:cry: :cry:

*HUUUUGGGGSSSSS* i really doubt it gets easier.... but if you didnt find it really hard you wouldnt be rescuing the innocents youve got a lovely heart and will always find it painful... hope you feel better soon
xxxxxxxxxxx

Leanne
13-11-2007, 07:07 PM
I believe we all do what we think to be right for a particular Bun based on what we know of the Bun and on a trusted Vet's advice. Sadly sometimes a tragedy occurs :cry: I can fully understand why you feel 'responsible' as I know I would too. But just because we may be 'responsible' for making a decision does *not* mean it is our FAULT if something goes wrong due to circumstances beyond anyones control.

I have lost 2 Does during a spay in the 10 years I have had Rabbits. Had I then never had another Doe spayed I would probably have lost 20+ to Uterine Cancer

Janex

Spot on.

I lost one of my own buns about 6 years ago during a routine spay, I was the nurse and the vet was a good friend and great vet and experienced. Sadly when we did a pm we found nothing but collapsed lungs (which could have occured from us trying to resuss) so sent off samples and found that she had a heart defect :( We were both really upset but it hasn't stopped me from continuing to neuter any rabbit deemed fit by a vet on appearances and that is the only bun ive lost during a routine op for the last 15 years.

Hugs for you Sooz.

toffee
13-11-2007, 07:10 PM
So sorry this has happened. :(

Jane's right though. You have to give the bun a chance at the best life it can have. a life where it's fairly certain they will get uterine cancer is not something that any of us wants to create for our buns and it would be heart breaking to watch a bun suffer with this.

These things happen. It's sad but you made the decision you thought was best at the time.

susiemae
13-11-2007, 07:15 PM
You made the best decision you could under the circumstances - you shouldnt blame yourself.

Sooz
13-11-2007, 07:59 PM
The vet has said the babies were already dead when they started operating. Harley also had an under developed uterus, her owner said she was 14 months old but the vet has put her at less than 6 months :cry: :cry:

I wonder what would have happened if we hadn't had her speyed.....would she have died anyway?

catswhiskas
13-11-2007, 08:13 PM
The vet has said the babies were already dead when they started operating. Harley also had an under developed uterus, her owner said she was 14 months old but the vet has put her at less than 6 months :cry: :cry:

I wonder what would have happened if we hadn't had her speyed.....would she have died anyway?

I'm not sure but with an under developed uterus and dead babies inside her it doesn't sound good does it? xxxxxxx

ecudc
13-11-2007, 08:31 PM
if the babies were dead then she might have died anyway from infection or the stress of labour might have caused her heart to give out if it was weak. I think you did the right thing.

sparklefairy
13-11-2007, 09:31 PM
I'm so sorry:cry: you made the right decision for her, like others have said some things are just beyond our control :cry: you can't torture your self with " what if's," if you hadn't have had her spayed she may have died and you would be asking your self " what if I had her spayed,"
Sometimes we can't win :cry:
Thinking of you xx

donnamt
13-11-2007, 09:34 PM
I'm so sorry:cry: you made the right decision for her, like others have said some things are just beyond our control :cry: you can't torture your self with " what if's," if you hadn't have had her spayed she may have died and you would be asking your self " what if I had her spayed,"
Sometimes we can't win :cry:
Thinking of you xx

i agree a no win situation for you...... she didnt have pain thats a good way for her to go hun :cry:

Maizy
13-11-2007, 11:10 PM
I'm really sorry this has happened.:( I still struggle with the decision I made to have Phoebee spayed in June. We lost her and I have had a real problem with it since. I do know I made the decision for all the right reasons and genuinely believed it was the right thing to do, and I think that's all you can tell yourself. You acted with the best of intentions and no bunny mummy could do more. I hope you feel better about it soon.

Angie65
13-11-2007, 11:22 PM
Poor bun was beautiful:cry: It feels worse losing her so soon than at least knowing she had had a short time being loved. My fault I guess rushing every possibly pregnant female to the vets before they've had chance to draw breath (or give birth - like the Original two).

Even if you weren't keen on speying Sooz, I would've been pushing for it. I had a foster bun recently. She was overweight so was rehomed through a Rescue pre-spey. The new owner's vet found mummified foetuses in her womb & she was just fine, so maybe this bun would've had a longer life if she hadn't have been spayed within hours of the stress of travelling to a new home. But you can never know:cry:

Sooz
13-11-2007, 11:46 PM
With how hectic the last week was and the shere number of rabbits coming in it seemed the best thing to do.

I have always tried to emergency spey where possible....Bessie came in last week and was under GA the following morning along with Samson. I know there is an increased risk but its still very slight by comparison.

She would have had to be speyed sooner or later either way and we still may have lost her.

I am VERY angry with the ex-owner though, her lies about her age could well have cost this bunny her life. I cant believe she was insiting she 'couldnt be pregnant' to me on the phone :evil:

Angie65
14-11-2007, 12:04 AM
With how hectic the last week was and the shere number of rabbits coming in it seemed the best thing to do.

I have always tried to emergency spey where possible....Bessie came in last week and was under GA the following morning along with Samson. I know there is an increased risk but its still very slight by comparison.

She would have had to be speyed sooner or later either way and we still may have lost her.

I am VERY angry with the ex-owner though, her lies about her age could well have cost this bunny her life. I cant believe she was insiting she 'couldnt be pregnant' to me on the phone :evil:


She rang me Friday & said she thought she definitely was. I told her she was already booked in for an emergency spaey, but I could pick her up earlier than Monday if she was nesting (so babies were born here).

Sooz
14-11-2007, 12:12 AM
Oh did she?

I think she was in a panic for me to take them because when I realised she was trying to breed from them I drilled her about the posibility of pregnancy....she may have thought I would say no.

The threat of her popping them all on the free-ads was enough to convince me though :?

BTW your inbox is full ;)

SarahP
14-11-2007, 12:13 AM
You could only make a decision based on what you knew and also what you were told. Sounds like she would have been in trouble anyway, even if she wasn't spayed. :(

jpp
14-11-2007, 12:13 AM
Your title says 'how do you stop feeling responsible', and that's the whole point really, you had to take responsibility when someone else allowed the poor little thing to get pregnant in the first place, then lie to you about her age etc. :(

Clicquot
14-11-2007, 12:21 AM
I know how you feel...We had Nena spayed, because I insisted, after a week of baytril. She stoped eating, vet wasn't sure wether it was blather or uterus infection. I had already said I wanted to get her spayed, because she had e false pregnancy every month...so the vet said, I can open her up, remove the uterus and then we will be sure...

The day we had an appointment to get her spayed, I was banging on their door half an hour early, her partner Falco had blue lips, wasn't breating, he had a second hartattack at the vets... Meanwhile poor Nena was in a bag next to him...

Vet said to postpone spaying, since Falco died and that was enough emotions for me in a day.. I insisted he went through with it, said I had my bad luck for that day...she died of hartfailure during surgery....

The guild is part of the mourning proces and now , 5 months later, I know I made the right decesion, she would have died, her uterus was complitely infected and baytril would hav eonly postponed her death. It was better for her to go on the same day as her OH...

I am sure you made the right descision as well...try to accept what happened and keep up the good work you are doing everyday... I am sure ,you must be an incredible strong person, otherwise, you couldn't do what you are doing. People tend to underestimate what it takes to run a shelter, the sad things with wich you are confrontated every day...

I hope you find lots of good homes for some buns next week!!!

Angie65
14-11-2007, 12:26 AM
I know how you feel...We had Nena spayed, because I insisted, after a week of baytril. She stoped eating, vet wasn't sure wether it was blather or uterus infection. I had already said I wanted to get her spayed, because she had e false pregnancy every month...so the vet said, I can open her up, remove the uterus and then we will be sure...

The day we had an appointment to get her spayed, I was banging on their door half an hour early, her partner Falco had blue lips, wasn't breating, he had a second hartattack at the vets... Meanwhile poor Nena was in a bag next to him...

Vet said to postpone spaying, since Falco died and that was enough emotions for me in a day.. I insisted he went through with it, said I had my bad luck for that day...she died of hartfailure during surgery....

The guild is part of the mourning proces and now , 5 months later, I know I made the right decesion, she would have died, her uterus was complitely infected and baytril would hav eonly postponed her death. It was better for her to go on the same day as her OH...

I am sure you made the right descision as well...try to accept what happened and keep up the good work you are doing everyday... I am sure ,you must be an incredible strong person, otherwise, you couldn't do what you are doing. People tend to underestimate what it takes to run a shelter, the sad things with wich you are confrontated every day...

I hope you find lots of good homes for some buns next week!!!

Wow, that's a:censored: day.:cry:

Sooz
14-11-2007, 12:31 AM
I hope you find lots of good homes for some buns next week!!!

Me too.

Sorry to her about your two bunnies, the last one we lost after a GA... her partner died a few weeks later :cry:

kayjay
14-11-2007, 12:33 AM
As you know from previous posts I'm opposed to emergency spaying in late pregnancy. I also wonder about the practice of rushing a rabbit to be spayed when it's just been uprooted and taken to a strange place, if they can die from shock at the site of a fox then I'm sure they can up and die due to too much stress......

.......... however I understand that rescues have to make tough decisions and this was one of them. She may well have had underlying reasons why she died and if the babies were already dead she would have possibly be suffering complications due to this. You ask how do you stop feeling responsible, you don't as you made the decision - but with each decision you make you are increasing your knowledge and experiences and therefore helping other rabbits who may come in in the same circumstances in the future. Any of us can only do what we think is right, I am pro-spaying even though some rabbits die in the procedure, but I would feel horridly guilty if my rabbit died during the procedure that I had consented to, I think that's normal.

Angie65
14-11-2007, 12:46 AM
As you know from previous posts I'm opposed to emergency spaying in late pregnancy. I also wonder about the practice of rushing a rabbit to be spayed when it's just been uprooted and taken to a strange place, if they can die from shock at the site of a fox then I'm sure they can up and die due to too much stress......

.

I agree, but I also wonder how many buns would survive with the inexperienced people who accidentally breed, so I think the risks are equal.

I picked up 2 free ad buns once & the next day they had babies. Ideally, a pregnant bun shouldn't be moved at all.

Incidentally, this wasn't a late spey - although we thought it might be - the dead babies were less than one week formed apparently. That said, I may think about things differently next time (no females!!). I think the reaction depends on the bun too. I have a bun here that refuses to eat after the stress of a vets visit, but another that regularly accompanies me on visits to my parents. I guess it depends on the nature of the bun. I've had 3 different sets of bonders her too recently. That must be stressful for them too. Strange place. Other bun smell. Different human, & a partner that keeps chaing them.

Sooz
14-11-2007, 12:54 AM
I would love to be in a position where I could let every pregnanct bunny go full term but its not possible or practical....sometimes the only way I can justify taking 'mum' on is if no babies come with her :?

As much as I would adore having baby bunnies bounding about I have to be realistic.

Incidentally I will normally wait at least a week before neutering if its not an emergency. Bessie, however, would have been pregnant by her brother so it was vital she did not go full term and having him neutered at the same time meant they could stay together.

kayjay
14-11-2007, 01:01 AM
As I said you're between a rock and a hard place really and at the end of the day not by your causing. It does sound like this poor rabbit couldn't win either way, if she'd not been rescued by you she would have probably died anyway. Makes you so angry doesn't it that rabbits are treated like this by people who don't know better and then lie to you :evil:

drboo
14-11-2007, 01:55 AM
Sorry to hear about Harley. RIP little bunny.

Sooz - try not to blame yourself, as you do so much good for these bunnies. However, I think the day people stop feeling responsible and guilty in situations like this is the day they stop caring, and thats not a good thing. As previously said, for every bun who reacts badly or dies from spaying, there are 20+ who are saved from cancer or having litters that they are not healthy enough to raise. As ever, I admire what you do and the hard decisions you have to make. Take care x

mullethead
14-11-2007, 09:48 AM
So sorry to here about harley,you are great with buns ,when i got sophie done they gave her human aneisthetic as it is better than bog standard and more tested,were in the same boat at the moment sooz as you know i lost teasel,rick:(

SOAD
14-11-2007, 11:22 AM
I am so sorry :cry: