Rabbit Operation Advice - Quite Urgent.

Hello

I first apologise for requesting urgent advice in my first post, but I could do with some advice before tomorrow evening.

We have a 4 year old male Lionhead house rabbit called Simba. Over the last few weeks his right eye has been weeping quite a bit. At first we started to bathe it on a night, but last week I noticed some white discharge coming from around his tearduct. We investigated further and found that gently pressing below his eye caused more discharge to appear. The next day he was straight to the vets and the vet said it was likely conjunctivitus and gave us some drops. He asked us to come back in 2 days to see if the drops had started to take effect. We went back in 2 days and although the eye was still weeping slightly it had improved and the redness and discharge were gone. He said that to be certain we should go back in 5 days for a free appointment to check the eye. This brings me to the issue...

When I arrived at the vets tonight it was a different vet and he looked at the notes from the previous visits. The eye was still weeping slightly, but is ten times better than it was last week. He asked about Simba's diet which I explained was a mix of standard rabbit and lots of grass/hay. He said that the standard rabbit food is not ideal because the rabbits pick and choose and it doesn't grind down the teeth, but Simba eats it all and he loves his hay. He then checked Simba's teeth - we have had another rabbit with teeth problems in the past and we do check Simba's teeth ourselves and they look absolutely fine to me. He said that although Simba's jaw feels fine he said he thought there maybe some overgrowth and he needed an xray and his back teeth grinding down and he also needs neutering at the same time so he will need anaesthetising.

Simba is litter trained and well behaved - he never nips or sprays - so I don't understand why he needs neutering. I also know the dangers of anaesthetising a rabbit, so i'm worried that we're putting him through a risky and expensive operation that isn't really necessary. The other vet found no other problems with Simba? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

If Simba is a single bun and does not show aggression or spray I see no need to put him through an unnecessary operation. As for his teeth, I may be wrong and I am sure that someone will tell you shortly, but if the eye has cleared up then surely it isn't teeth causing the problem? Did your vet look in Simba's mouth at all?

With regards to diet most people have their buns on Excel or Science Selective pellets as they prevent the bun from picking through their food. Hay is the best source of food for buns teeth as it helps them wear properly. I would try and see the first Vet again, I don't like the sound of the one you saw the second time xxxx

Hugs for Simba hope the eye clears up soon!

Hi and welcome to the forum:wave: :wave: I've nothing to add to the above post apart from the fact that I agree with it:lol: . Never apologise for asking for advice and help..we all do it all the time!!! This is a great support group
Hilda

I think if he is going under a GA anyway....and I agree that a rabbit showing signs of tear duct blockage or infection which has not cleared up with anti-biotics should have an X-Ray to check for tooth root overgrowth....then getting him neutered is a good idea. It will help make him a happier, calmer rabbit.

7 days treatment is still quite short so I would give it another week, if its no better or worse of it it clears up and then re-occurs I would recomend an X-Ray.

The risk of GA is very low nowdays, I have had nearly 60 rabbits operated on and lost one....who had a heart defect. You can request additional blood tests if you are worried as these will check liver/kidney function to assess any possible high risk.

Did the vet checked the molars with a scope?

Thanks for all of the advice - The vet did check Simba's teeth with a scope. It seemed very distressing for Simba and I nearly stopped the vet half way through because I was worried. The vet said that there was "some" overgrowth. I have to admit that I can't check his back teeth easily, but his front teeth are perfect.

I really don't know what to do for the best - I obviously want the best for Simba, but from one vet saying he is ok it's now turned into him needing an operation.

If his teeth are overgrown he does need a dental, my Fiver had his second today....I had a look throught the scope and it was not pleasent. I have the bits they cut off here with me, they are quite large and very sharp.

He was round and eating again within 2 hours and he is so much happier this evening.

Altering the diet really will help, switch him onto a complete pellet such as Science Selective but make sure AT LEAST 90% of his diet is hay based with another 5% vegetables.

Rabbits chew roughage and greens in a side to side motion which promotes even tooth wear, whilst they chew pellets in an up and down motion which does not.

EDIT: Did the first vet check his molars with a scope?

to me, being as utterly cynical about vets as you become after 3yrs reading the rabbit forums - it sounds like this vet is trying to make money from a situation that could be investigated very simply.

It sounds like your rabbit has had an infected tear duct, for whatever reason, and it's clearing up even without antibiotics - so why the x-ray and neuter? this article mentions half way down about tooth roots in older rabbits, which is what may be the problem http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/sneezing.html

this is a link for a list of questions you can ask your vet to see if they actually have done more than the few weeks on rabbits that vet school covers http://www.mybunny.org/info/vet_questionnaire.htm - I ask if they have attended small animal conferences annually too - If you are paying, you have every right to find out if they are competant so don't be too shy to quiz them.

Sooz22 said:

I think if he is going under a GA anyway....and I agree that a rabbit showing signs of tear duct blockage or infection which has not cleared up with anti-biotics should have an X-Ray to check for tooth root overgrowth....then getting him neutered is a good idea. It will help make him a happier, calmer rabbit.

7 days treatment is still quite short so I would give it another week, if its no better or worse of it it clears up and then re-occurs I would recomend an X-Ray.

The risk of GA is very low nowdays, I have had nearly 60 rabbits operated on and lost one....who had a heart defect. You can request additional blood tests if you are worried as these will check liver/kidney function to assess any possible high risk.

Did the vet checked the molars with a scope?

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I agree with all the above from Sooz, did the first vet check his teeth?
Maybe book to see the first vet and ask him to check his teeth for a second opinion on them?

At this point I am not necessarily suggesting that the overgrown molars may be causing the eye problems, but suggesting they are a seperate issue which may be related but needs sorting regardless.

preston has his back teeth checked with a scope every time he goes to the vet for his nail trims. it doesn't look a very pleasent experience for him and i know it's not 100% accurate but if it can identify any teeth problems then it is a necessary evil i think. i have been told that it is less traumatic than it looks.

preston is 18 months old and has had 2 dentals to burr spurs and he has some regrowth already from his last dental in july.

it is very difficult to decide what is best, especially when you have had conflicting advice.

i don't know what else to say, but fortunately preston has been fine under GA twice in 12 months and i am prepared for him to have to undergo this ago in the future...

No, the first vet didn't check the molars with a scope. He spent a lot of time looking at the eye and suggested the eye drops first and then flushing under sedation if it didn't clear up.

Right, then I have to say that I would be very upset if I took one of my rabbits to a vet with a weeping eye and they didnt think to check the teeth.

Im afraid I am more inclined to trust the second vet based on that alone.

lee said:

No, the first vet didn't check the molars with a scope. He spent a lot of time looking at the eye and suggested the eye drops first and then flushing under sedation if it didn't clear up.

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I would be inclined to go with the second vets advice in this case as any rabbit savvy vet would always check the teeth incase its relating to the eye problem and in general any rabbit savvy vet would routinely check the buns teeth whatever it had been brought in for Im not saying he is right about the teeth being the cause, but at least he bothered to check!

leanne said:

I would be inclined to go with the second vets advice in this case as any rabbit savvy vet would always check the teeth incase its relating to the eye problem and in general any rabbit savvy vet would rutinely check the buns teeth whatever it had been brought in for

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Great minds Leanne, great minds.....

Sooz22 said:

Great minds Leanne, great minds.....

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:lol: We seem to be posting at the same time each time too!!! Heehee!

Thanks once again for all the replies and advice.

I think I am going to ahead with the operation. A few of you have put my mind at rest regarding the risks of GA. I think the consensus is that if he has molar problems they need sorting sooner rather than later.

I thought it best to seek a second (third, fourth and fifth ) opinion on here before putting him through an op.

I'll let you know how he gets on when he gets back on Thursday night.

One more question, shall I go ahead with the neutering as well considering he is a placed, well behaved rabbit?

These are Fivers spurs which were removed today:



They are next to a tea spoon.

lee said:

One more question, shall I go ahead with the neutering as well considering he is a placed, well behaved rabbit?

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hmmmh.... difficult to say, but if he is going under GA it might be beneficial to prevent any future potential health issues, if any, if that makes sense.....

It certainly wont do him any harm

Hehe I am new here but wanted to jump in right away :lol:

The first vet sounds like he did symptomatic treatment whereas the second was actually more concerned about cause.

Molar spurs can cause problems with the eyes. If the vet checked with the scope and saw something, I would definitely suggest the x-ray. If you want to wait though, you could wait another week and see how the eyes go. Either way, the meds will help with the irritation a bit but if it really doesn't go away it will most likely be more than just conjonctivitis. If money isn't too much of a concern, you can do the x-ray just to know for sure and have that peace of mind.

As for neutering, you are lucky he isn't aggressive or sprays. However, it might be aggravating to your bun when he is in heat. So generally, vets recommend it. Also, if ever later on you think of getting another bunny it will certainly help. I have had bunnies under anaesthesia many times and have had no problems. My girl Wiggles was very ill when she went under also and they saved her. I do suggest you go somewhere where they have a good reputation and lots of experience with bunnies. Some places recommend blood tests to make sure they won't be more vulnerable to the anesthesia.