Opinions needed: what's best for Sunnie

I am hoping to get some input here, especially from people who have bigger groups of bunnies. I recently added a 4th bunny to my group and now I am not sure if she is happy.

I adopted Penny and Snoopy about a year ago, it was love at first sight between them and they are now about one and a half years old. A few months ago I adopted Luna, who was 8 weeks old then. Janice did the bonding for me, and all went well. It took a few weeks until Luna was fully accepted, but now she is part of the group and seems to be quite in love with Snoopy, too. Penny chased her a bit for a while, but never got too aggressive with her. They are friends now, too. Luna was sitting apart from the others for a couple of weeks, until she got fully accepted, and I felt sorry for her. I thought that by adding another baby, she may have a friend, too.

So I adopted Sunnie. I bonded the 4 in our kitchen, all went well. Then I kept them in a dog crate for a few days, and things were ok, too. I cleaned the hutch and run as good as I could. When I put them all in the hutch, Penny started chasing Sunnie whenever she got the chance. She nipped her a few times and I found bitemarks on Sunnie's back. Since then Sunnie is scared of Penny. Even if Penny just wants to sniff, she runs off and that annoys Penny. Sunnie is allowed to eat with the others, and she is ok with Snoopy and Luna in the hutch. But she hardly ever dares to go down the ramp. Today I saw her sneaking down into the run, but Penny spotted her and chased and attacked her immediately. So Sunnie spends most of her time upstairs and the only exercise she gets is from being chased from one corner into the other. She seemed much happier when she was on her own and binkied around her own run. Although she is eating well, she does not seem to be growing much. She is about 3 months old now.

There are 3 options for Sunnie I can think of, and I would like to know what you would recommend:

1. Give her more time and hope that she will get more confident with age.(They will all go to holiday boarding for a week soon, maybe that might help?)

2. Separate her and Luna from the group and keep them as a pair. But Luna really likes Snoopy and Penny, I don't want to rip them apart.

3. Separate her from the group and find her a boyfriend.

Options 2 and 3 would mean that I could not foster for ARC any longer, unless they can provide a hutch. And holiday boarding would be more expensive and more difficult to find with two groups. I do have enough space, time and money for two groups, but am I giving up too soon? Has anyone been in a similar situation? I bonded Sunnie with the others about 5 weeks ago. It took 4 weeks until Luna was fully accepted, but Penny was not as aggressive towards Luna as she is towards Sunnie.

Sorry for the long post. Just not sure what to do.

it is tough to watch a bun that you love be bullied - I found that when bonding my 4, Beauty bullied Flower in much the same way as you describe - they settled down after a few weeks... then when I added Silas to make a group of 5, both Beauty and Flower chased him and nipped him on the bum - the nipping stopped after a few weeks and the chasing stopped after a couple of months. He has only recently been fully accepted by them e.g. eating and sleeping together (they've been together since the end of June).
They now do live happily as a group - all of them can be seen grooming/snuggling each other at some point in the day!
Although it was hard to watch Silas sitting on his own with a sore bum from being nipped, I think it has been worthwhile - he is a happy boy now.
One thing that helped loads, was to have an intricate set-up - loads of boxes to hide in/sit on and tunnels to dodge through - it broke up the chasing and in the end I think Beauty and Flower just couldn't be bothered any more so accepted him! :lol:
I don't know what I would advise, just wanted to give an example of where sticking to guns worked...
Good luck with whatever option you choose!

It's a difficult situation, maybe give them a bit more time if Sunnie
isn't too stressed, can you turn your hutch a different way round or something? I know it sounds a bit stupid but moving the room around really helped Poppy and Sweetpea, she still chases her but not nearly as much!

I have had a few bondings like this which I have persevered with but have to admit I worry about the stress it causes the bullied rabbit.....do they ever go off their food or become ill from the constant negative attention?

I would recommend sticking with it at least until after they have been away for the week. I'm guessing Sunnie is unspayed? If so Penny might be being territorial due to the maturing girlie smells coming from her?

Adding a new bun to a group can be rough going sometimes - when Tammy came to stay with me, Sooz and I agreed she could stay as long as she bonded into my group and at first all was ok and then she went through a really rough patch with a couple of bite marks and it got to the point where I was about to call Sooz and tell her I couldn't keep her - but I left it a couple of days and they just suddenly all settled and it was like she'd always been there.

I think the upcoming change of scenery could maybe be your make or break point - see how they get on in completely neutral territory and take it from there.

Sooz22 said:

I have had a few bondings like this which I have persevered with but have to admit I worry about the stress it causes the bullied rabbit.....do they ever go off their food or become ill from the constant negative attention?

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I am not worried about the food, because Sunnie is allowed to join the rest for feeding. And I put the food in the hutch, so when the others go back downstairs (they prefer to be in the run most of the time), she then eats whatever is left, too. She has lots of hay and a water bottle, but she seems to prefer the bowl which is downstairs. That is really her only reason to g down the ramp. I put the bowl closer to the ramp so that she does not have to go too far into the run, but maybe I should encourage her to go into the run and face Penny more often. :?
I am more worried about her immune system and health, or that she injures herself during one of the wild chases up and down the ramp. We have already added more stripes of wood and a little bannister on each side of the ramp, because she used to slip off it.
Louise, I can't turn the hutch around, it wouldn't be possible with the paving, etc.. I turned the ramp into the other direction and did some other changes, before I put them back into the hutch, though.

chloaster said:

I would recommend sticking with it at least until after they have been away for the week. I'm guessing Sunnie is unspayed? If so Penny might be being territorial due to the maturing girlie smells coming from her?

Adding a new bun to a group can be rough going sometimes - when Tammy came to stay with me, Sooz and I agreed she could stay as long as she bonded into my group and at first all was ok and then she went through a really rough patch with a couple of bite marks and it got to the point where I was about to call Sooz and tell her I couldn't keep her - but I left it a couple of days and they just suddenly all settled and it was like she'd always been there.

I think the upcoming change of scenery could maybe be your make or break point - see how they get on in completely neutral territory and take it from there.

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Yes, she isn't spayed, yet. If she is big enough after our holiday, she will have it done. When Luna got spayed I had all 4 bunnies back indoors for a few days, and things were quite peaceful. But once they were back in the hutch, the attacks started again. Also, if Sunnie doesn't dare to go into the run, it will smell of the other 3 and they probably see it as their territory then? I'll give it another scrub once they have left for their boarding place.

Bavarian Bunny said:

Also, if Sunnie doesn't dare to go into the run, it will smell of the other 3 and they probably see it as their territory then? I'll give it another scrub once they have left for their boarding place.

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I think that's a very good idea - the other option if they don't settle could be to take Sunnie out and reintroduce her once she has been spayed - it might just be that Penny feels her place as top girlie bun is being threatened?

Yes, I don't think Penny likes to share. :lol: Luna wasn't spayed either, but somehow she wasn't quite so scared and after a bit if chasing she just sat still and held her head low, which calmed Penny down. Sunnie is scared, because she got bitten a few times, so she always runs away.
I am always envious when I see your garden full of bunnies, peacefully nibbling grass, Chloe. :lol:

Well, the bunnies have returned from their 7-day holiday with Claire at the Doe Drop Inn, and the bullying has already started again. Claire said they were ok while with her, although not best friends. Sunnie is being chased by Penny again and she thumps and runs away every time she gets near her.

How old now is Sunnie, I would hold off from separating them until Sunnie is neutered and her hormones have settled down. Her being unneutered may be creating a problem for Penny. If you can leave her until she is about 4.5 - 5 months old she will be developed enough and hopefully things will settle.

Out of interest did Penny accept Luna in better to the group before or after she was neutered?

Sunnie is 4 months old now. She hasn't shown any hormonal behaviour, yet. She is very friendly with me, while the other 3 usually disappear downstairs when I try to give them a noserub. Penny doesn't mind, but Snoopy and Luna prefer to just get their food.
I could not see any difference between Penny and Luna after Luna had been neutered. Luna had been fully accepted already, but she also had a more brave behaviour and did not run away from Penny. And Penny never nipped her, so she did not get scared and had no need to run away.
Luna sometimes chases Sunnie, but does not nip her. She mostly ignores her. Snoopy is the same. I think he just lets the girls fight it out among themselves.

Awww poor Sunnie. Was so hoping things would be ok after holidaying together at the Doe Drop Inn. Hopefully they will settle very soon.

I am currently preparing the foster hutch for Sunnie. This morning she got attacked by Penny again, and when she escaped down the ramp, she got attacked by Snoopy and Luna in the run. There was a lot of her fur everywhere. It just isn't fair to keep her in that group. It will be another month or two until she can be neutered, and even after that she may never get accepted. My boyfriend is also quite worried that she may get injured, and thinks she will be happier with a friendly little boy. Luna never got attacked and chased like that, even before she was neutered.

is the foster hutch big enough for all? Maybe coming back to "her " terretory has made penny possessive again. If she is somehwere new she might be ok.

ecudc said:

is the foster hutch big enough for all? Maybe coming back to "her " terretory has made penny possessive again. If she is somehwere new she might be ok.

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No, the foster hutch is only big enough for two bunnies really. It does not have a run attached, so the foster bunnies usually go in a separate run during the day.