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urinary incontinence

E

ecudc

Warren Veteran
been to the vet 4 days ago becuase of the above. Rabbit pronounced "one very health rabbit" no sign of kidney inflamation, obvious stones, temp, etc but i was given a course of baytril just in case.

He is:

Neutered and all outward signs are very healthy
No sign of sludge or calcium in wee
Peeing probably more often and in smaller amounts & doesn't seem to realise he's doing it (i.e. is not lifting tail)
He has been recently bonded (1 month) but both regained training within a few day & the fact that he's hopping around dribbling makes me think it is not that.

4 days into the course and I thought there was some improvement but I think it may have just been the central heating drying up the wee before I saw it. Tonight we were having a little nose rub and when sooty got up his bum was wet from one huge puddle on the floor and he proceeded to dribble as he hopped around. This is very unlike him.

The vet suggested hormone therepy if the antibiotics did not work. Does anyone know why this might be? Also if no improvement is seen in next couple of days should I take him back for another course of antibiotics/possibly pancur for EC?
 
I would have said there is a definite chance of EC. The question then is whether you treat on a full course of Panacur on the off chance, whether you test for exposure to it, or whether you treat with Panacur to see how things go in 9 days, then extend it if there are signs of improvement.
 
Has your vet suggested cystitis?

Fiver gets cystitis secondary to teeth problems (but many rabbit get it as a singular complaint), the pain it causes when he pee's leaves him incapable of directing urine away from his body hence he 'wets' himself....urinary incontinence.

He is treated with Baytril 0.6ml X2 daily and 6 drops of Metacam X1 daily to relieve associated pain.

We also used Fuciderm to reduce the swelling on his burnt legs and vaseline as a barrier cream to protect the skin.
 
vet did not suggest cystitis. I'll go out and get some cranberry juice :D Sooty doesn't show any outward signs of molar spurs (i.e. he is still gobbling all food with glee).

The does of baytril I was given sounds a little on the low side, which may be why, if he does have an infection, it hasn't made a quick recovery. We are on day 5 now of 0.5ml a day, of a five day course. I was not given medicam.

On the EC bit, is it likely that this is the first symptom and if he is treated on a full or 9 day, just in case, are there likely to be any side affects from it?

Definately going back to the vet if no improvement is seen in the next couple of days (I want to give the anitbiotics some chance to work). My vet, although very good for small animals, does rotation so I'll probably have another vet with a different opinion.

Still a little puzzled about the hormone therepy suggestion......does he think that maybe he is lacking in testosterone & therefore has no urge to spray, even in his litter.
 
You're not likely to see any side effects from one course of Panacur, but if you use it for the 9 days, I'd keep a close eye on things before making any decisions to go for a 6 week course (ie if it's helping etc).
 
If he has given anti-biotics he is treating for a UTI so I would ask for Metacam in conjunction with that. If you then see no improvement (Fivers was a 10 day course) I would go for the Panacur.....that said if he has never been wormed I would advise a 9 day course anyway.
 
Cystitis is very responsive to antibiotics, so if it doesn't clear up after the course of baytril, then it's probably not that (provided you have given them properly of course).

From my experience bladder calculi/sludge causes straining, but doesn't always cause chalky wee. In fact very clear urine with NO trace of chalkiness can be a very bad sign because it can mean that the rabbit is having difficulty excreting it, and it may be staying in the bladder.

Amy
 
he is definately getting all the antibiotic... in fact he seems to like it :shock:

Sooty doesn't seem to be straining when peeing, it just seems to be falling out of him, with no obvious signs of tail lifting. He'll just be sitting down and get up wet. Once he starts, it seems to continue for about half an hour. Then he stops again, probably when his bladder is empty.


I have seen him use his litter tray, with tail lifting but only for a few seconds. he then hopped off and proceeded to leak around the room :( poor little mites backside keeps getting sodden & if this continues I'll have to start bathing him or he'll get sore.
 
ecudc said:
he is definately getting all the antibiotic... in fact he seems to like it :shock:

Sooty doesn't seem to be straining when peeing, it just seems to be falling out of him, with no obvious signs of tail lifting. He'll just be sitting down and get up wet. Once he starts, it seems to continue for about half an hour. Then he stops again, probably when his bladder is empty.


I have seen him use his litter tray, with tail lifting but only for a few seconds. he then hopped off and proceeded to leak around the room :( poor little mites backside keeps getting sodden & if this continues I'll have to start bathing him or he'll get sore.
Click to expand...

Drawn out urination and spotting is a sign of a UTI (urinary tract infection) Im afraid, its the pain of toileting that makes them stop and start and they always think that they need to go when infact the bladder is nearly empty which is why they appear to take such a long time.
 
I wonder why it hasn't responded to the antibiotics. Although on a slightly more positive note there was no pee outside the litter tray today although sooty was still wet. I think that might be because i poppped a paper towel in the litter tray with spilled urine on & covered with hay. "Someone" has obviously eaten or kicked the hay out and was peeing against the towel so I imagine it probably bounced right back.

Another trip to the vet is booked. I'm going to be seeing their bunny specialist so hopefully we should get a result.
 
Just been doing some reserach RE Cystitis in dogs for my Boss whose elderly Dog has to be referred to a specialist (£1-2000 :shock: ) and there is a lot of info on Bladder stones.....has he had an x-ray for these by any chance?
 
no x ray. I will probably ask for one at the vets as I would like to rule out EVERYTHING :D Vet did have a good feel of sootys kidney/bladder area & couldn't detect any inflamation but i guess if they were tiny, but maybe blocking up his urethra (is that whats it's called in buns?) it could cause some of the problems.

I did have a sudden thought though. after the problem started, I also decided to try a few more hays to see if I could get sooty in the litter box a bit mroe & included excel herbage.....thats got dandilion in...which makes you pee....alot. Probably not helping matters, although I suppose it would help to flush out the system.

oh and we have peeing outside litter tray & wet bum again today so previous hopes dashed :(
 
Oh dear.

Is his skin OK from the constant soaking? Maybe your vet could shave his bum if he goes under GA for an xray to stop it absorbing the wee and leaving it against the skin.....then you could use a barrier cream to protect his legs etc.

It called the uretha :D
 
at the moment his skin is OK. He's a very silky (not fluffy) bun and most of it seems to be running off the top of his fur but sticking to the ends. I've also been running around trying to wipe him with kitchen towel :shock: and gave him a little sponge bath today.
 
Hiya,

This is very odd as a few months ago, Rudy had the EXACT same things. He had xrays, blood test, antibiotics, you name it... all coming back clear :?

Eventually the vet said he was in renal failure and there wasn't much else they could do... however... it cleared up and he went back to normal :? :? :roll:

I personally think Rudy's problems are behavioural half the time :?

It will be interesting to see what your vets say and how it progresses.

Good Luck, it can be very frustrating when nothing works :(
 
If your vet can't feel any tenderness around his bladder, then perhaps it isn't a UTI, and could possibly be nerve damage (possibly from EC?) like SarahP suggested.

Have you seen any blood in the urine?

Amy
 
abbymarysmokey said:
If your vet can't feel any tenderness around his bladder, then perhaps it isn't a UTI, and could possibly be nerve damage (possibly from EC?) like SarahP suggested.

Have you seen any blood in the urine?

Amy
Click to expand...

I would have said the same, the bladder muscles are often the first to be affected in cases of EC. I would recommend starting him on a 30-day course of panacur and see if it starts to clear up. If not then you may be able to rule out EC and will know to look for something else.

I would also recommend getting your vet to clip the fur around his bottom if it's getting soaked, because it will start to smell and you won't get it all out successfully with shampooing (also it can be quite traumatic for them to be shampoo-ed! and they don't dry off properly if they're contantly wetting themselves). Helen
 
Last edited:
I'm fingers crossing it's not full blown renal failure because in all other respects hes a very happy chappy & doesn't seem to be loosing weight. I will be definately going for the pancur & brazilian (although he seemed to quite enjoy the bunny dip & rub......espcially the rub bit :shock: ) & see what vet thinks about xrays, blood test plus stonger/longer antibiotics....ooh this is going to be expensive.

The only other thing I was wondering about is Diabetes insipidus.

http://www.petdiabetes.org/diabetes_insipidus.htm

This might have been why the first vet was suggesting hormones if the antibiotics didn't work...although I still wonder whether only 0.5ml of baytril a day for 5 days is enough to knock any infection on the head, if he does have one.

Anyway roll on wednesday, which is the only day that the bun specialist is in........it gives another day for the antibiotics to kick in if they're going to.....chances are when wednesday comes sooty will be looking up at me dry as a water bicscuit wondering what all the fuss is about.
 
Regarding the antibiotics...

The kind of bacteria that usually causes UTIs can't live if exposed to air, so it can't be cultured for a C & S test to determine a suitable antibiotic.

I've had rabbit urine samples cultured by different collection methods (including a needle inserted directly into the bladder) and none has ever been successfully cultured for any bacteria.

I think with UTIs you just have to try an anibiotic and hope for the best.

The lack of pain in the bladder area does suggest that it's caused by something other than a UTI though.

Amy
 
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